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Mgellis

Harpoon 3 scenarios for the HUD-4

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Greetings,

I've been using the HUD-4 to create scenarios for a while now. I recently learned about CombatSim, so I've joined, and I'm saying hello, and I'll be posting announcements about new scenarios here. I also hope this will be the beginning of some good discussions about scenario design, drawing on history to create new scenarios, etc.

I should point out I am completely uninterested in arguing about who has the "best" database. I don't care. I happen to like the HUD-4 database, I use it to write scenarios, and I hope other people will try it and like it, too. If there is something you think needs to be fixed, please let Gunny know (there's a section on the harpgamer forums for this). If you happen to like some other database better, that's fine.

The most recent versions of the HUD 4 (v 1.0 and v1.1 beta 10) and a bunch of scenarios I have written are available at...

http://harpgamer.com/harpforum/index.php

...I hope you will try them out. My scenarios are written using the beta, but I have had very little trouble with crashes, database errors, etc. (I accidentally posted a couple with a flawed version of the beta some months ago, but I have deleted those and the new versions at harpgamer should be stable.)

More later...

Mark

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A new ANW/HUD-4 (v1.1 b10) scenario is available...

Valor and Varna 2014

Tensions between the Ukraine and its neighbors in the Black Sea region, allied Bulgaria and Romania, have reached a crisis point. Intelligence suggests that the Ukraine plans a massive attack against Bulgaria, focusing on its merchant fleet and the port city of Varna. Can Bulgaria, with the assistance of its ally Romania, defeat this threat?

Here is the link...

http://harpgamer.com/harpforum/index.php?/files/file/772-pledge-11-valor-and-varna-2014/

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Tried this scenario and ran into the same weapons-will-not-fire problems as found in:

Anyone running this scenario and finding that some of their weapons will not release, do not despair. You are not doing anything wrongly; it's a database error over which no player has any control.

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Tried this scenario and ran into the same weapons-will-not-fire problems as found in:

Anyone running this scenario and finding that some of their weapons will not release, do not despair. You are not doing anything wrongly; it's a database error over which no player has any control.

I have not had this problem. I do not believe it is a database error. For those who wish to try the scenario, be sure that you are using the right version of the database (HUD 4 v1.1 b10). And, yes, it is a beta version of the database, so there may be some issues (it has all the newest entries, though, so that is why I use it). But, honestly, that has not been a problem for me.

The one weird thing that did pop up is that one of my MiG pilots will occasionally decide that a neutral (Turkish) 737 is hostile and shoot it down before I can reroute it. I do get the "you will face a board of inquiry" message afterwards when that happens.

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You may not have encountered the problem, but others have. It's a database error since since the weapon fires in other databases such as the PlayersDB because the PlayersDB does not suffer from such poor quality control in its entries as HUD4 does.

The problem with MiG pilots shooting down neutral aircraft IS an ANW game bug and has already been reported

AI deliberately engages neutral units even though they are not hostile towards the AI and are unarmed

because it happens to all databases (including the PlayersDB). This is the quintessential definition of a game bug; that which affects all databases and players while the HUD4 database errors are limited to HUD4 users (thank goodness).

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The problem with MiG pilots shooting down neutral aircraft IS an ANW game bug and has already been reported

AI deliberately engages neutral units even though they are not hostile towards the AI and are unarmed

because it happens to all databases (including the PlayersDB). This is the quintessential definition of a game bug

You know, I wonder if this is a "bug" or if it was deliberate--in real life, incidents like this do happen; maybe there is a small random chance built into the game that a unit will THINK a neutral unit is hostile, especially if you have the "weapons free" setting on. It is tragic, but it would be realistic to make it at least a possibility.

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No, it is definitely a bug. In real life, incidents happen, but the mechanics in real life go about fixing them immediately instead of trying to deny their existence. You've now been shown three instances of your bugs and exactly how they manifest. Yet you cling to desperate denials as if they will make the problems disappear. The only way to fix a bug is to fix a bug.

There is no small random chance built into the game for these bugs. This is not a function nor feature of the game. It is a game bug because other databases and scenarios such as CasoDB and the PlayersDB are not infected by this bug. It is a bug specific to the HUD4. These weapons fire without any problem in most databases except for the HUD4.

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Well, in the case of a MiG shooting down a 737, the problem was not that the weapon did not fire, but that it did fire. And, believe me, that missile seemed to work just fine, not that the people on the 737 would have appreciated it very much if it had actually happened.

As for weapons not firing, again I can only speak from my experience...there are a few database errors, and these include some weapons that do not fire, and I'm as frustrated as anyone when that happens (and so I report the problem to Gunny when I spot them) but the vast majority of the HUD-4 database entries are fine and they work fine. At least, they do for me.

Again, I encourage people to download the HUD-4 and some of the scenarios and just try them out.

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As for the 737 being shot down, the game bug is that neutrals are being shot down when the AI should not be firing in the first place.

As for weapons not firing, again I can only speak from my experience and that of others, there are many HUD4 database errors, and these include numerous weapons that do not fire.

I would not encourage people to download the HUD-4 and some of the scenarios unless they have a surfeit of time to spend on dead ends.

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As I keep saying, I can only speak from my own experience.

I do not have problems with the HUD-4. I have not observed the number of errors you describe. I have observed a few errors, most of which have been fixed very quickly once they get reported to Gunny.

I have fun with the HUD-4. I think other people will, too. That is why I use it to write scenarios and why I recommend it to people.

As I keep saying, I suggest people download the HUD-4 and try out some of the scenarios. That's probably the best way to see whether or not it works for them. Most people are pretty practical about things like databases for games. If I'm right, they'll have fun and they'll keep using it. If I'm wrong, they'll stop using it.

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As I keep saying, I can only speak from my own experience and that of others.

I and others have many problems with the HUD-4. I have observed many errors, none of which have been fixed once they get reported. Waiting over a year for a simple fix that never comes is probably within your level of tolerance, but not likely for anyone else.

http://community.com...40#entry5147335

As I keep saying, I suggest people ignore the HUD-4 unless they have a surplus of time and enjoy the frustration of reaching dead-end bugs.

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I think people should just try the HUD-4 and make up their own minds about it.

If someone has already tried the HUD-4 and does not like it, that's okay. Everyone has their own preferences. I happen to prefer the HUD-4, I think it gets better with each new version that gets released, I write scenarios with it, they run fine on my machine, and I hope people will try them out and have a good time.

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I think people should just try the HUD-4 and make up their own minds about it.

Therein lies the problem. You know that HUD4 has problems yet deliberately ask folks to try it. Why? So that they can experience the problems for themselves? This is just abusive of the players' time. You've been told exactly when and where your scenarios have problems. Instead of just fixing them for the benefit of players, you ask them to blindly try out a database that has been openly proven to be infested with bugs and problems.

If someone has already tried the HUD-4 and does not like it, that's okay. Everyone has their own preferences. I happen to prefer the HUD-4, I think it gets better with each new version that gets released, I write scenarios with it, they run fine on my machine, and I hope people will try them out and have a good time.

You certainly seem to be the only who claims that your scenarios and HUD4 works while, apparently, everyone else reports otherwise. In fact, I think most everyone has tried HUD4 at some point in time, however briefly. Instead of begging for players, you should be asking yourself why folks abandoned the HUD4 after their initial experience. It very likely is due to the number of bugs found.

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Your experience appears to have been different from mine. I do not get large numbers of people telling me that my scenarios crash, or that there are errors, that the scenario is unplayable or a waste of time, etc. Normally, the feedback I get consists of people saying they enjoyed the scenario.

Here is an example...

http://harpgamer.com/harpforum/index.php?/topic/18460-file-operation-blue-doghouse/

...interestingly, this is one of the scenarios you have mentioned as having all kinds of errors. And yet it seemed to run fine for this person.

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Here is an example...

http://harpgamer.com...-blue-doghouse/

...interestingly, this is one of the scenarios you have mentioned as having all kinds of errors. And yet it seemed to run fine for this person.

Actually, it did not run fine for him as he also reported:

This is interesting, though. In a first short run, the Phantoms did NOT fire any Sparrows at the T-34. When I added larger ac (airborne) for red side, the F-4s launched Sparrows. Thus I thought it had to do with the T-34.

Your reading and memory are selectively omissive.

As well, I have neither read nor posted any reports of the HUD4 causing crashes outright. Currently, the predominant game problem encountered with the HUD4 is the fact that many, Many, MANY weapons fail to fire. This is 100% avoidable and reparable.

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Again, my experience is simply that the database errors are nowhere near as common or as severe as you claim. I agree there are a few errors; I have spotted a few myself. I also agree they are annoying. To my knowledge, however, the number of errors reported on harpgammer to Gunny has been very small--and we're a fairly cranky bunch; if there were huge numbers of errors, I think I'd be seeing the threads about them.

In any event, this is one of the reasons I hope more people will try the HUD-4. Quite apart from the fact that I don't think there are that many errors and that I think people will have fun with the HUD-4, if there are errors, the more people there are looking at scenarios, the more likely it is that those errors will be spotted and reported. Then everyone wins.

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Again, my experience is simply that the database errors are nowhere near as common or as severe as you claim. I agree there are a few errors; I have spotted a few myself. I also agree they are annoying. To my knowledge, however, the number of errors reported on harpgammer to Gunny has been very small--and we're a fairly cranky bunch; if there were huge numbers of errors, I think I'd be seeing the threads about them.

Regarding the number of errors found in HUD4, I notice how you like to try and ignore your own facts which consistently prove you wrong. The supposed lack of bug threads for HUD4 is due primarily to your conduct and that of your cohorts. If you act like a total jerk whenever anyone reports a problem with your work or HUD4, it's no wonder that folks just stop trying your work or using your database. They just give up and ignore you altogether so that you can wallow alone in your ignorance. This is the only logical explanation for the dearth of file downloads for your scenarios.

Since there is clearly no competence on hhq v2.0, here is an example of how a professional deals with problems: http://www.matrixgam...asp?m=2142890 No muss, no fuss, no drama, no recriminations, or denial. Just fix the damn thing and move onwards.

In any event, this is one of the reasons I hope more people will try the HUD-4. Quite apart from the fact that I don't think there are that many errors and that I think people will have fun with the HUD-4, if there are errors, the more people there are looking at scenarios, the more likely it is that those errors will be spotted and reported. Then everyone wins.

The unresponsiveness to any reported problems is probably the reason why more people will not try the HUD4. Most likely, they have tried a scenario, bashed their heads in frustration, and sworn never to waste time on another. A whole group of us did when we tried HUD in MP.

Once again, you abuse the good nature of any players you might find. Players are not your personal guinea pigs nor an excuse for HUD4 incompetence or sloth. It isn't their role or function to test your scenario or HUD4. Their 'job' is to play and enjoy themselves; not de-bug the scenario or database for you. That's YOUR job. Fix your problems and you will have a chance to win them over. Or, continue on your current path of denial and end up begging and pleading for someone (anyone!) to try your scenario.

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I honestly do not think the problem is unresponsiveness. I've searched the hargamer forums and there simply are not many errors reported for the HUD-4. (There are a few, but not many.) If they exist, someone should report them. When I report errors, my experience has been that Gunny addresses the issue and usually does so very quickly. Of course, you want to be polite about it--just saying, over and over, "Your database sucks and your mother dresses you funny" really isn't very helpful. You need to document the problem, make sure it really is a problem with the database, and a find a way to let the harpgamer community know about it so that Gunny can address the problem. If he does not know about it, he cannot fix it.

So, that's one more reason for checking out the HUD-4. If I'm right, and there aren't many errors, people will have a good time with the scenarios; if they do spot occasional errors, they can report them. If I'm wrong, and there really are more errors than I think there are, it's only by spotting them and reporting them that we can hope to get them fixed.

You can be part of the problem or part of the solution.

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I honestly do not think the problem is unresponsiveness. I've searched the hargamer forums and there simply are not many errors reported for the HUD-4. (There are a few, but not many.) If they exist, someone should report them. When I report errors, my experience has been that Gunny addresses the issue and usually does so very quickly. Of course, you want to be polite about it--just saying, over and over, "Your database sucks and your mother dresses you funny" really isn't very helpful. You need to document the problem, make sure it really is a problem with the database, and a find a way to let the harpgamer community know about it so that Gunny can address the problem. If he does not know about it, he cannot fix it.

Of course you won't find many examples of HUD4 problems on the hhq v2.0 forum since anyone who reports them gets summarily banned. I'm sure you won't find any dissent in the DPRK (North Korea), either. The fact that you need to come to CombatSim in order to get a real picture of how badly your scenarios and HUD4 work is simply proof positive that harpgamer serves only as a meeting point for high-fives and handjobs.

Let me draw your attention back to how a professional deals with problems: http://www.matrixgam...m.asp?m=2142890 Note how derisively, snidely, and rudely the problem was reported, yet it was still fixed in a perfunctory manner with no muss, no fuss, no drama, no recriminations, or denial. That's professionalism.

The problems reported can only be with HUD4 since they do not exist in other databases. Your hubris is simply unbelievable. Now, it's MY job to "find a way to let the harpgamer community know about it"?! The problems were reported and I was subsequently banned. Rest assured, your HUD4 problems continue to be reported and discussed on all fora such as CombatSims, safely away from hhq v2.0 reprisals.

So, that's one more reason for checking out the HUD-4. If I'm right, and there aren't many errors, people will have a good time with the scenarios; if they do spot occasional errors, they can report them. If I'm wrong, and there really are more errors than I think there are, it's only by spotting them and reporting them that we can hope to get them fixed.

You can be part of the problem or part of the solution.

Actually, that's exactly the reason for NOT checking out the HUD4. Since the editors and scenario designers won't waste their own time checking and fixing things, why should an unsuspecting player waste his precious time? Your problems are your own. The solutions have already been shown to you. So long as you refuse to address your problems, there is nothing anyone can do to help you. Your problems are 100% preventable and correctable by you and you alone. No one is going to force their help upon you or anyone else who does not want it.

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This is tiresome. If you're not willing to be part of the solution, at least stop being part of the problem.

I'm calling your bluff. You say the HUD-4 is flawed. Fine. I don't think the problems are anywhere near as bad as you claim, but let's assume you're right. Either help make it better or, if you feel you do not have time to do this, which is certainly your right, do not interfere with those who are trying to enjoy it and improve it. I'm just asking people to try the HUD-4 (or try it again if they tried an earlier version) and make up their own minds if they like it or not. And, if there are errors, please let Gunny know so he can fix them. Or do you have something against people thinking for themselves and helping each other out?

Along those lines...

A new HUD-4 scenario is available!

http://harpgamer.com/harpforum/index.php?/files/file/773-pledge-12-passage-to-denmark-1991/

Task Force Romeo has completed an intelligence gathering mission in the Baltic and is now on its way back to Copenhagen. However, with the Soviet Union on the verge of collapse, tensions between it and the West are rising, and the task force needs to be careful not to spark an international incident on its homeward voyage.

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This is tiresome. If you're not willing to be part of the solution, at least stop being part of the problem.

I'm calling your bluff. You say the HUD-4 is flawed. Fine. I don't think the problems are anywhere near as bad as you claim, but let's assume you're right. Either help make it better or, if you feel you do not have time to do this, which is certainly your right, do not interfere with those who are trying to enjoy it and improve it. I'm just asking people to try the HUD-4 (or try it again if they tried an earlier version) and make up their own minds if they like it or not. And, if there are errors, please let Gunny know so he can fix them. Or do you have something against people thinking for themselves and helping each other out?

Whoa, there. I have the solution but you are the problem. Until you can recognize that fact, nothing's going to change. Your rude demand that I help you is part of it. You want my help or that of others. You ask for it. A proper common request is fine. Your snotty arrogance will only earn you a reply-in-kind.

You really do not understand your conduct. Anyone following this thread will see it easily:

1) You ask folks to try your scenario

2) Problems are reported along with a solution

3) You ignore the report and the solution. Instead, you keep asking for 'help'.

This total dishonesty is crystal clear and it is apparent that you simply want someone to agree with you and tell you how great thou art. Only those who agree with you and give you oral copulation are allowed to reply on your thread. It is abundantly clear that there is somehow a 'right' answer to your demand. If that is all you want, you need to stay at harpgamer since that's all that folks like TonyE and Guerin can do for you.

This is the real world. You want help, be polite and cordial and you will receive it. Or, you can scurry back to hhq v2.0 so that you can speak badly about those who bothered to try your scenario whilst under the protection of the scumbag forum administrators.

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Because Mr. Hum does not seem able to discuss this matter in a civil manner, I will no longer respond to his comments.

Instead, I will focus on my original goal, which is simply to let people know when new HUD-4 scenarios are available, discuss ideas for scenarios, etc.

My experience with the HUD-4 has been very positive. My experience with the database editor, Gunny, has also been very positive. I hope people will try the HUD-4. I hope they will enjoy the scenarios that I and others have written for it. I hope they will offer feedback on these scenarios. I hope that, if they do discover errors, bugs, etc., they will post a report on harpgamer so the database editor can make improvements. I hope that all this leads to the Harpoon community enjoying more and better scenarios as the years go on.

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