A6BSTARM
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The answers:
1. Sverldov class of Crusiers
2. TU-16 Badger
3. Medium Endurance Cutter, did any of you all know that more and more USCG cutters are steaming with USN Task Forces?
4. S.2B Buccener, Low-level strike, last squadron was retired in 1994.
5. Currently in Service with India and named the Viraat. Previously in service with the Royal Navy as the HMS Hermes. In the configuration shown in the picture she was called a commando carrier by the Royal Navy.
6. HMAS Melbourne in service with the Royal Austrilan Navy. The ship in the background in the USS Midway. The Melbourne was previsouly known as the HMS Majestic.
7. Royal Norweigan Navy Oslo class of fast frigates (FF).
Congrats to all of you who got the right answers.
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Time again for the Intel Quiz of the weekend.
How many questions can you answer?
Name this class of ship:
What is the NATO codename and designation for this aircraft?
What is the designation of this class of ship?
What is the primary mission of this aircraft and when was it last in service?
What nation currently operates this ship? What were its names when in service?
Name the ship and the country that it sailed for of the ship in the foreground?
Final one
Id this class of ship?
Correct Answers will be posted Tuesday.
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Warhorse you got a full sweep. Nice job, you win the NO PRIZE award for the week.
I will give you the "Yankee Notch" for the last one it is taken in 1981 by a Norweign P-3 of a Yankee I boat rounding the horn up near the Kola Pennuisla.
The one with the FRS.1 Sea Harriers and the F-18's was taken when a RN carrier was making a port visit to Norfolk (circa early 90's ) and the RN Harriers had a chance to play against the American F-14's, F-18's and Marine AV-8B's in some war games off the coast.
Stay tuned folks, next Friday or Saturday will be some more pictures posted. Another chance to rack your brain on units, capabilities, or even nations.
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I hope to make this a running list (maybe even a sticky?) of books that are worth reading for ideas on Naval Tactics and scenario ideas. Please feel free to add on as you want. Here are my contributions:
Tactics and Theory:
Fleet Tactics: Theory and Practice by Capt. Wayne Hughes
An interesting book that is suprisingly small in size (just over 250pages with out the index and bib) that covers the basics of tactical theory for naval combat and relating it to real world examples, doesn't get into specifics but rathers paints a broad picture of fleet naval tactics. Very easy to read and probably one of the best to start with.
Fleet Tactics and Coastal Combat by Captain Wayne P. Hughes (USN Ret,) An update of the previous book with a couple of chapters on the combat in the coasts or to use the new buzz word Littorials.
Soviet Naval Tactics by Milan Vego
A book on how the Soviets would approach naval operations. This is a deeper book then the previous two, it was written by one of the few members of the Warsaw Pact invited to attend the Soviet equivalent of the US Naval War College. This is a pretty in depth book cover most of the common missions that would of been conducted by the Soviet Navy and those trained under it system. It shows how the Soviets took war down to a science with mathmatical forumlas on how many aircraft that would be needed to penetrate a CVBG with Aegis support or with out Aegis, how and when to sprint and drift while piloting a SS picket for a SSBN, and so on. Worth reading to show how it really would of been done had the balloon gone up between NATO and Pact.
. Principles of Maritime Strategy by Julian Corbett
This is the book that helped to define the role of the Royal Navy post turn of the century and emphaize the reason for a navy. Although primarly written in defense of the Royal Navy and part of the public fight to by the HMS Dreadnaught, it does give a very good overall view of why nations need a navy and how a navy fits in the overall strategy of war fighting.
The Influence of Sea Power Upon History, 1660-1783 by A. T. Mahan This is the book that was written that stressed the need for the US to become an international player and if it wanted to become a member of the international community then it needed to have a strong navy. Mahan shows how England rose to become the empire it was through the use of its Navy and mainly through the protection of sea lanes. This is a very in depth book to read, but worth while again to understand the motives of some modern nations in thier building of a navy. It is rumored that this book sat on the nightstands of both T. Roosevelt and Kasier Wilhelm II and both frequently read it over and over again.
Scenario Ideas:
Red Phoenix by Larry Bond A book written in mid-80's by Larry Bond. Talks of a new war in S. Korea. Although primarly a ground and air war concetration there are still parts that talk about the naval engagements. Also could give a broader frame work from with which to work
Vortex by Larry Bond Another of Larry Bond's novels. This time written about an ultra-conserative government rising to power in S. Africa and starting a war between it and Angola over Nambia. Again although primarly a land and air war book there are naval operations, US and UK Carriers escorting amphibious groups into the area, amphibious landings and it even includes a passage about a US Battleship bombarding a mountain fortress. Again a worthwhile book to sample from or to use as an overall frame work for other scenarios
Cauldron by Larry Bond Again a Larry Bond novel. This time written about a French and German control a group similar to the EU starting a war with portions of the Eastern Europe over belonging to this new "EU". After a US and UK ship attempting to reach Warsaw are attacked the US and UK get involved. There are numerous passages of naval combat in this book, along with land and air combat. One of the passages was revised for the latest version of the paper version of Harpoon in it scenario listing.
The Sixth Battle by Barrett TillmanThe second of a set of fiction written by Barrett Tillman about modern Naval Aviators and combat. Again the region of the world is S. Africa. This time a CIS lead invasion by the nations bordering S. Africa is pushing back that nation. The only thing to stand in the way is a lone American Carrier transiting through Gonzo Station. 1 US carrier vs 5 Soviet Carriers.
The War That Never Was by Michael A. Palmer
Is an interesting book with in a book. It opens with the meeting between a former GRU officer and a reporter talking about the book that the GRU officer and a Naval officer wrote together. That book is about a war game done between the senior military and political leadership of the US and Russia. This book although mentions some land combat is primarly about the war at sea for control of the major water ways. In places such as the N. Atlantic, Med, S. Atlantic, South China Sea, Sea of Japan, IOPG. An interesting book that talks about areas outside of Central Europe heavily so it provideds a different view of general war.
This book is just a little far fetched, but that doesn't stop it from being a good frame work for a scenario. Castro in 1990 siezes the embassies of both the Soviets and the US and the survivors of Gitmo. Holding them hostage in return for removal of the loans to the 3rd world nations and payment of various debts by those two nations to the third world for crimes against those nations. There is miniumal naval action in this beyond the ending which involves an amphibous landing by both the US Marines and Soviet Naval Infantry to rescue the hostages. This is a book that again could be used as a center piece for a number of smaller unit scenarios.
That is about all that I can think of to start with.
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Since it seems to have slowed down in the non-political side of the HULL forum. I decided to try and get things up to speed by posting some platforms. How many can you id? Answers will be posted about a 3 days from now.
To start with an easy one:
What is the name of the ship in the background?
What class is this ship?
Who makes the two aircraft in the center of the photo? What is the full designation of said aircraft.
Name the missile under the wing of this aircraft?
What is the class of submarines is this? Name 3 countries that operate this submarine?
What is the role of this missile?
\What is the mission of this submarine?
Like I said in 3 days answers will be posted. Good Luck.
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Just updated my blog with my own opinions about the immigration debate and another post with some bad days in Naval Aviation.
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These are the new ships for the Italians right?
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I use to have a series of CD's that covered CBS's coverage of the D-Day landings from 1am Eastern War Time up to around the 1700 EWT period. I lost them in a move (
), but the most interesting thing was how the folks back at CBS HQ in New York City heard from some of thier reporters that something was going on in London, but were unsure and how SHAPE wouldn't answer the telephone,door, window. From there these CD's took various other reports from their field reports publishing from the air (Cronkite), from onboard the USS Nevada, and then from an actual beach head. There were more and it was really interesting to listen to. I just wish I could remember the name of the collection and try and find it. The really funny thing to listen to was how as the stories were rolling into the CBS office, how the home anchor was having trouble to keep up with all the information and stories coming in and which ones to go to.Something else, look for this book Victory in Europe: D-Day to V-E Day; Text by Max Hastings, photographs by George Stevens. It is a book written after George Stevens died about his combat camera men from D-Day to VE day. Really interesting book filled completely with color shots. Oh and those of you who don't know George Stevens, check out this link over at www.imdb.com to read a short take on his Hollywood carrer. Was either the director or the cinematographer of such movies like; "Diary of Anne Frank", "Shane", "Gunga Din", "A Place in the Sun".
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But you had better build it to withstand this:
Picture of access to after engineering space on USS Samuel B. Roberts (FFG-58) after striking sea mine placed by Iranian forces.
A close-up view of crack in the port side of the superstructure of the guided missile frigate USS SAMUEL B. ROBERTS (FFG-58) sustained when the ship struck a mine on April 14, 1988.
An interior view of the main engine room of the guided missile frigate USS SAMUEL B. ROBERTS (FFG-58) after the ship struck a mine on April 14, 1988.
A close-up view of a crack in the deck of the guided missile frigate USS SAMUEL B. ROBERTS (FFG-58) caused when the ship struck a mine on April 14, 1988.
Oh and this:
view of damage sustained by the guided missile frigate USS STARK (FFG-31) when it was hit by two Iraqi-launched Exocet missile while on patrol in the Persian Gulf.
A close-up view of damage to the guided missile frigate USS STARK (FFG-31) after it was struck by an Iraqi-launched Exocet missile.
A close-up view of damage to the guided missile frigate USS STARK (FFG-31) after it was struck by an Iraqi-launched Exocet missile on 17 May 1987
Finally robotic cameras and computers can't do any of this:
A firefighting team moves a hose into position to fight a fire near the bridge of the guided missile cruiser USS BELKNAP (CG-26). The BELKNAP was heavily damaged and caught fire when it collided with the aircraft carrier USS JOHN F. KENNEDY (CV-67) during night operations. Date Shot: 22 Nov 1975
Firefighters aboard the guided missile destroyer USS CLAUDE V. RICKETTS (DDG-5) direct spray from their hoses onto a fire aboard the guided missile cruiser USS BELKNAP (CG-26). The BELKNAP was heavily damaged and caught fire when it collided with the aircraft carrier USS JOHN F. KENNEDY (CV-67) during night operations. Date Shot: 22 Nov 1975
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I can achieve both of the first set of shots with only 500 Million dollars. I can order a bunch of these:
to lay these:
Or:
Osa missile boats
or :
Truck mounted Silkworm missiles captured in Iraq.
There are a few places in the world were it would be real easy to shut you away from the beach or just prevent entry and hope to achieve a "CNN Kill" against your force.
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Well near the end of the OV-10 lifetime North American did develop a verison of the OV-10D with a redesigned nose and it carried a FLIR turret. Along it the fact that the OV-10 was mounted with an internal gun, yes it was only 7.62mm but still. Then it had pylons for carrying rocket pods, bombs, and gun pods. Also back in the hey day the USMC did prove that the OV-10 could operate out of unimproved runways so flying FAC over a convoy with thier doctrine about FACs this could really be a boon for both the USMC and the US Army. Also think about seeing an OV-10 with GPS mods done to the aircraft flying high above the battlefield and able to observe the insurgents moving from one building block to another as you do a sweep, its speed keeps it from being tagged by the RPG's that the insurgents have used to get helos like the OH-58's and the AH-64's over there.
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USMC looks at restarting the VMO squadrons and bringing back the OV-10 for FAC missions
For those of you that can't hit the link:
From the 12APR06 edition fo Janes Defense Weekly.
USMC looks to revive OV-10s for use in Iraq
BY: Joshua Kucera, Jane's Defence Weekly*
04/12/2006
The US Marine Corps is looking at the possibility of reviving the retired OV-10 Bronco observation aircraft for use in Iraq, according to a top service official.
The aircraft, which was retired from US service in 1994, would be used to augment surveillance of roads in Iraq.
Having additional aircraft there could increase the chances of US forces detecting the emplacement of roadside bombs or improvised explosive devices (IEDs), some service officials believe.
"If this is a capability we think that will take out the IED or help us catch the IED maker ... you bet [we are interested]," a senior marine commander told Jane's.
Service officials, with the help of an association of retired OV-10 pilots, have identified aircraft and pilots that could be used in Iraq, he said.
The Marine Corps Warfighting Laboratory has been tasked to examine the cost of such a plan and the concept of operations it might use, the commander added.
However, not all marine officials are enamoured with the idea.
Lieutenant General John Castellaw, the service's deputy commandant for aviation, told Jane's he thought the experience of the Gulf War showed that the aircraft was too vulnerable.
Marsh Aviation, which manages the inventory of the government-owned OV-10s and does upgrade work for international OV-10 customers, could remanufacture 10 or 12 of the aircraft suitable for military use by piecing together parts of various aircraft, said Floyd Stilwell, Marsh Aviation's chief executive officer.
The company could start delivering aircraft within 10 months at a normal production rate and faster if the government paid for it, Stilwell said.
The OV-10 proposal is one of many schemes - often secretive - to revive retired aircraft or convert civilian aircraft for use in operations in Iraq and elsewhere.
The US Army has converted at least three Shorts 360-300 aircraft under the name Constant Hawk to do surveillance in Iraq and the sea lanes of the Middle East. Two of the aircraft collided with each other in Wisconsin in February shortly before they were to be sent to Iraq.
Mohawk Technologies of Florida has operated a fleet of six OV-1 Mohawk reconnaissance aircraft under a US Department of Defense (DoD) contract for about 12 months, said Paul Pefley, the company's president. Pefley declined to say where the aircraft were being operated or for which branch of the DoD. The OV-1 was retired from US Army use in 1996.
Most of the non-traditional aircraft plans, however, have gone nowhere and have been openly advocated only by a collection of veterans associations and a handful of members of Congress.
There is a growing constituency, however, of people who believe that soldiers and marines in Iraq need better real-time intelligence and look back to the Vietnam-era Forward Air Controllers (FACs) as a model of how counterinsurgency can be fought from the air.
Those FACs were more tightly integrated with small units than the surveillance aircraft used today, and more effective, the Congressional staff member said.
"The air force is looking at all this, but very quietly," he said. "There's really a gap in combat information at a platoon commander, convoy leader level that is real and as real-time as you can hope to have it. We've got dozens of systems operating over there but there's a big logjam in the [intelligence] pipeline, and everyone knows it."
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The same has happened in flight simulations. Last I heard Lockheed/Martin and Northrup/Grumman had attempted to sue a couple of companies over the use of thier brand name and the aircraft featured in the games. So the game designers pulled the LM and Grumman names off the packaging and just included the generic name. I had heard this applied to Pacific Fighters, Strike fighters, and Boeing made Microsoft pay a licenseing fee for the use of Boeing products in MSFS.
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My own personnel blog was updated talking about my family's invovlement with April 15th 1986. Check it out over at Southern Air Pirate's Haze Gray Thoughts
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AGSI was working on a LAN verison of H3 however, that has been put off to the way side (from last that I heard) while H3 is being developed into its "Pro" and basic editions. Also, I think that Matrix when they bought in to publishing Harpoon from AGSI has looked at that a little bit.
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Looking at the budget over at The Navy's own FY07 data on the LPD-17 project. The LPD-17 cost 1.36 Billion dollars to produce just this one unit. Playing around over at SecNav's FY07 Budget webpage this cost the US Navy is only allocating a total of 10.5-10.6 billion dollars total for shipbuiliding (that includes new and rebuilding). Add in the LCS, CVN(X)-21, DD(X) all running about the same just for the various designs being proposed and no actual units being laid on the slips. The current generation of ship building for the US Navy is just bleeding with waste,fraud, and abuse possibilities. It will be a damn shame if the US Political spectrum swings the other way and money dries up like a river bed in the desert.
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Graph paper and tongue depressers, huh? We used to use tongue depressers for chart scales in CIC to figure set and drift during radar nav, and I don't doubt those little sticks were put to many other creative uses over the years. The only problem with paper games is that in my area, I'd have to go down to the local FRA Hall and spring for beers to recruit opponents. Not a totally bad idea, but we might never get to the game. Another couple of PC games you all might want to check out are Gulf Strike, Strike Fleet and Red Storm Rising. They're all abandonware, and you can get them at HOTU. I don't know what scruples you might have about abandonware, but since I personally purchased them all when they were still published, I have no problem with downloading and playing them now. I don't find any of them to be of the caliber of Harpoon, but they're all fun to play. I think I'll pass on Godzilla though.
Never know, Budda.
I played while drinking beer in a game shop in Norfolk. Though we did spend a lot of time drinking beer while setting up once the game got going there was more thinking then drinking. One of the things that I did for a while when a large number of people (ie over 5 per side) wanted to play was break in into teams and have various people either running task forces or run individual ships and report orders through an overall side commander. The minimum to play is 2 for the pen and paper version, perferable is 3. Since you can have a blue force player and a red force player and a ref (who in some scenarios are running yellow force units).
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Titainum can be fashioned to fit together like regular brass,iron,steel pipping. However it takes expensive machinery to do cut the threads on the pipes. On top of that as was noted in the article it takes an expensive style of welding to weld the pipping together. The advantages are that titatinum is lighter and stronger then regular steel, but those are out weighed by the costs in manufacturing it to your specs. So that is when when it is used that metal is used in specific places and equipement.
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I'll beg to differ on one itsy bitsy point....
The USN never liked small ships. One hundred ships of Thomas Jefferson's gunboat navy that were already authorized were quickly cancelled after James Madison took office.
The reasons then are the same as the reasons now. The gunboats were lightly armed and not fit for the high seas. They would've been flotsam if ever encountering an RN frigate or sloop.
Global Security has a nice article on LCS
I concede the point. Had forgetten the debacle that happened to the Navy after Jefferson left office and Madison came in. The whole debate on how to defend the coast, with a strong navy and some coastal forts or with a strong coastal fort and a weak navy. Yet another one of those beautiful debates about where the defense of the nation falls to and at what point. Got to love inter-service rivarlies
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The economy sized crew is coming to Nav Air too folks. There are currently 2 EA-6B squadrons on deployment right now (one a tail hook squadron, the other a concrete or expeditionary) that is seeing reduced manning in the maintenance departments. Example the workcenter that I am in (avionics) is use to haveing 18-23 people in the shop total with about 10-15 per shift and 1-2 as supervisors. Both of them are testing 8-10 man crews. Let me tell you something it takes 5 people to safely replace the modules in the ALQ-99 pod or to just remove a pod. So who is the parts runner for the bird up on the roof on the go if everyone else is down in the hangar bay doing the maintence on the pods? They are also trying the same with the SH-60 birds and the E-2 guys. This is occuring across the maintenance shops (engines, airframes, electrical, avioncis, and aircrew survival). The offical numbers aren't in yet, but unoffically along the flight line, readiness is a big ol down by 25-35%.
The LCS is an attempt to make a jack of all trades and a master of none. It won't completely succeed since the USN has been afraid of small disposable ships since the end of the Spanish-American War. Cause a small ship may take money from thier large deck ships, and all true faithful to Mahan understand that power projection is the way to creation a nation. Small ships don't do that, but large ships that are able to bring overwhelming force to the enemies fleet and get them engaged in a battle very similar to the battle of trafalgar or battle of the Nile.
Nothing smaller then a destroyer has really been accepted in numbers with the US Navy. What about PT Boats you say? What about them? They weren't used in SW Pacific in the same manner that the UK,Germans, Italians and to a lesser extent the US in the Med and Channel. That is running battles between the two small boat forces or various attempts to attack larger convoys with thier torpedos and escape back under friendly air. Instead in the SW Pacific they were wasted in chasing small landing craft and lighters that the Japanese used to move troops and supplies up and around the SW Pacific. Once the war progressed out of that theather, they really disappeared as usable units and though they did hang around till 1945 were considered vital that by fall of 1944 the contracts were reduced for production numbers. End of the war the US Navy got rid of them, during Vietnam realized that Destroyers couldn't steam up the rivers or get in around near some of the shore line so they bought off the shelf ships and turned those in to the PBR's and PCF's of the Riverine force for Vietnam. Along with conversion of older LCVP's and LCM's into heavily armored landing craft. Dump those to various friendly nations after the war, preserved a few in and around the Philippines and Panama but that was about it. At various times through out the the Navy there has been attempts to bring them back into vogue, but each time thier limitations have put a hamper on how many to buy and how they are employed.
The attempt to buy the PHM Pegaus in the late 70's is typical of this, hydrafoils proved a way to create a fast attack craft that could be used really well in places such as the fjord of Norway or in the various inlets of the waters off Greece. Yet they still needed OTH information and in places such as Norway, were really only useful in the really "nice" days that the Norweign sea gives you every so often. They would of been totally unusable in the middle of the fall and winter were you are looking at high seas and high winds. Let alone it they would of been dead meat to Soviet air in a general NATO/PACT war.
The Cyclone series of ships were supposed to be the ultimate for insertion of SpecWar guys, but too many people got thier hands involved in that one and it ended up being too large, too noise, too expensive for the SpecWar community and regular Navy saw it as too small, too underarmed, too fragile. They have now been passed to the USCG which has found them too expensive and too short legged to operate.
This will probably blow up in the US Navies face. Hopefully, I will be done and retired when it does.
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Budda check out Clash of Arms Harpoon 4 this is the most current generation of the Harpoon board game. I have played it a few times while haze grey and under way with some similar minded folks. We sort of cheated the system since we couldn't set up a few set piece battle on the mess decks of an aircraft carrier. So we used graph paper and scored some tounge depressors from a Corpsman in sickbay. It usually worked well enough for us. I have all the current books out for Harpon 4, and both of its world war 2 and world war 1 additions. Command at sea and Fear God and Dreadnaught. They just published about 1yr ago another time period the Russo-Japan war. I don't have that one yet (
). My only problem right now, is that I live in an area that it takes me about 3hrs to head to anyone else that wants to play Harpoon 4. If you look around too there are various compaines that also make lead and pewter models that you can use to. I have bought a few from a company called out of Richmond, VA, the only problem is to build a decent 9 ship size CVBG set me back about USD$200 before S&H. The other thing that clash of arms also publishes a bi-monthly magizine that includes rule claification, scenario updates, new rules, etc. One of the more intresting ones when I use to subscribe to that was a scenario that included a battle between the Japansese Self Defence Force against some radioactive lizard monster ( I just wish I could remember its name
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It was a change in the code of the game (I am assuming your talking about HC here) somewhere between version 1.1 and 1.3 that allowed not only the placing of helos to surface ships (instead of them being hard coded) and the ability of the designer to place everything from the zones to be patrol depending on what sort of load out they were carrying. It was done to give the designer more flexability to set things up the way they wanted instead of having the game decided it from the get go and then have the player spend the first 10-15 mins changing things around
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To be honest I would put money on the Typhoon. Not because I don't believe in the F-22. Rather think about it in a modern air campaign enviroment there is going to be heavy ECM along with the fact that out of the 3 aircraft listed the only one that doesn't have stealthy charastics written into it. However it would probably be carrying a decent ECM pod or sensor suite on it. So that would remove the BVR thing, cause if your radar can't see anything then you have to close range and engage targets with IR missiles. Then it is all about manuverability. Everything I have read about the F-22 seems to put in in the same sort of aircraft like the MiG-25, MiG-31, F-102, F-106 and a few other long range cold war interceptors. Fly high, fly fast ripple your missiles and fly home. Well if your going super cruise and have to take a mile to slow and turn around by then your smaller more manuverable foe will have been able to get eyes on you manuvered for a shot and basically your family would of gotten the telegram from the Sec of Defense. Will they train to use "supercruise"? I don't know, but I do remember hearing from all sort of USAF folks talk about the F-14 and how it was a poorly designed aircraft and the missile system (the AIM-54) was poor since it couldn't even shoot down a MiG-25 during Operation S. Watch back in the 1990's. The same will probably happen with "supercrusie" IMHO. That is it is a bell and whistle of the aircraft that it may not completely be able exploit well in future conflicts. We will see in the by 2008 when the first squadron is expected to make its first deployment.
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), but the most interesting thing was how the folks back at CBS HQ in New York City heard from some of thier reporters that something was going on in London, but were unsure and how SHAPE wouldn't answer the telephone,door, window. From there these CD's took various other reports from their field reports publishing from the air (Cronkite), from onboard the USS Nevada, and then from an actual beach head. There were more and it was really interesting to listen to. I just wish I could remember the name of the collection and try and find it. The really funny thing to listen to was how as the stories were rolling into the CBS office, how the home anchor was having trouble to keep up with all the information and stories coming in and which ones to go to.
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Its offical
in Wardroom
Posted
From the front page of Matrix Games, makers of some pretty fun military simulations, is this Matrix Games Announces Harpoon 3 Advanced Naval Warfare
This can only be good news folks. Matrix does a pretty good job at packaging and supporting a number of thier games. I have a couple of thiers that have been in my HD's since I discovered them about 4yrs ago. A couple of games set in the Pacific during world war 2 and one that feeds my sci-fi side. Check out thier catalog, though it isn't large and a few of thier newer games are expensive, they are of pretty high quality and have been rated pretty well by most gaming reviewers.