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This Day in WWII 09-17-1939 - 1944


Donster
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1939: Kutno and Brest-Litovsk are captured by German troops. The Red Army invades Poland from the East with a million troops on the pretext of "protecting Poland's Byelorussian and Ukrainian population." The Polish government seeks asylum in Romania, where it is interned. The Polish Air Force scores its last kills during the battle for Poland, by shooting down a German Dornier bomber and a Soviet fighter.

1939: The Aircraft Carrier HMS Courageous is torpedoed by U29 (Kapitanleutnant Schuhart) south-west of Ireland, killing 515, but 687 sailors survive.

1939: American aviation hero Charles A. Lindbergh makes his first anti-intervention radio speech. The U.S. non-intervention movement is supported not just by Lindbergh, but by former president Herbert Hoover, Theodore Roosevelt Jr. Henry Ford and a number of senators and congressmen as well.

1940: Churchill announces in the Commons that in first half of September 2,000 civilians have been killed and 8,000 seriously injured in air raids; the figure for service casualties, for the same period was 250.

1940: Liner City of Benares, evacuating children to Canada, is sunk by U48; 77 out of 99 children lost, total killed 260.

1940: Hitler postpones Operation Sealion, the plan to invade Britain, until further notice.

1941: British and Russian troops occupy Teheran, after Iran failed to comply with their demand to expel all Axis nationals.

1941: The US allocates $100,000,000 to the Soviet Union for the purchase of war materials.

1941: Beginning of general deportation of German Jews.

1942: Peace talks in Madagascar break down.

1942: Bitter street fighting in the north west suburbs of Stalingrad.

1942: 1942 British Prime Minister Winston Churchill meets with Soviet Premier Josef Stalin in Moscow.

1943: The Germans begin a withdrawal from Salerno as the British 8th Army joins forces with British and U.S. troops in the Salerno bridgehead.

1943: Stalin announces the capture of Bryansk.

1944: Monte Altuzzo finally falls to the U.S. 85th Division.

1944: Operation 'Market Garden' begins with First Allied Airborne Army drops at Eindhoven, Nijmegen and Arnhem to secure bridgeheads, as the British Second Army pushes north into Holland from Belgium, to link up. Canadians launch all-out assault on the Boulogne garrison.

1944: Russian forces push towards Baltic through Estonia.

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True...but it has just one problem...PLANNED BY MONTGOMERY! :(

..........what's wrong with Monty?

Every documentary I've seen they've had the Americans critisizing old Monty, which is natural. The British weren't happy under American control, either.

Not like any of the American commanders ever ######ed anything up, oh no.

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True...but it has just one problem...PLANNED BY MONTGOMERY! :(

Also the main reason, I feel, was the horrible amount of bad luck that they had. No matter how much planning or something, you can't take into account something happening. Like an SS tank corps (or was it something else?) happening to be there for repairs after France...

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Lets see...............Market Garden.............good concept............may have worked.

Planning.............well lets pick that apart. Intell wasn't listened too....."oh, look, we found tanks around Arnhem!!" "Nah......there there for repair" Hmmmm.........should have sent up a flag!!!

And who in their right mind picks a 1 road axis(1 lane in some places) to push a Corps (XXX Corps) up............just a logistical nightmare not to mention lack of manouver due to marshy ground.......bad for armour!!!

Not even going to mention distance of the drop for the Brit Airbourne............sort of took away the speed and violence factor!!

I could go on.......I'll stop.

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Yeah Geg, hindsight is always twenty-twenty, but, look at what was expected. First you drop three airborne divisions in three areas to secure bridges and do so without allowing the Germans to blow any of the bridges in your sector. Then you drive 30 Corps up a two lane road with canals and swampy fields on either side. You expect them to do this in what 36 hours? To move what was it, 60 klicks? Then you ignore what the Dutch underground is telling you. You look at arial photos and decide that what you see is not what you see and convince yourself that the only resistance you will face is old men and boys? Geg, even today, if you dropped that plan on my desk and even if Market Garden had succeded or had never happened, and I had the power to tell you so, I'd say you were nuts and don't even think about it and don't come back to me with some hair brained scheme like that EVER again.

In my opinion, there were to many IFs in that whole op that should have been considered more closely before letting the first paratrooper board an airplane. The most important would have been, "IF we can secure all the bridges without the Germans being able to blow one." Guess what, that one failed. The bridge over the Wilhelmina Canal in Son which was blown before the 101st could secure it.

Another "IF" is the reports by the Dutch underground and the arial recon done before kick-off. The British high command was being told that it was more than Old men and boys in and around Arnhem and Oosterbeek. In fact, the German 15th Army, which had been in full retreat until Von Runstedt had taken command was in the area with some 80,000 men. On top of that, the SS 9th and 10th Armored had been ordered there for R&R adding another 9,000 well trained elite armored units in and around Arnhem.

Another "IF" RAF Transport Command reported that they were short of aircraft and would be barely able to support the operation. Any losses or bad weather would upset this ability. The problem was so acute that they flatly refused to drop the British to the north of their target bridge because it would put them in range of flak guns just to the north at Deelen. Another suitable drop zone just to the south of the bridge was also rejected because it was thought to be marshy, and thus unsuitable for dropping the gliders containing the force's heavier equipment. Instead they demanded a drop zone 15km away from the bridge, which would have to be taken and held overnight until the 3rd lift — the force would have to be split in half for over a day.

Geg, I could go on with my ripping of the plan including the tearing of a new one to the planner himself, Montgomery but I think you can get the jist of my argument. It was a waste of time, effort and material. Pure and simple whether they fail or not.

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Lets see...............Market Garden.............good concept............may have worked.

Planning.............well lets pick that apart. Intell wasn't listened too....."oh, look, we found tanks around Arnhem!!" "Nah......there there for repair" Hmmmm.........should have sent up a flag!!!

And who in their right mind picks a 1 road axis(1 lane in some places) to push a Corps (XXX Corps) up............just a logistical nightmare not to mention lack of manouver due to marshy ground.......bad for armour!!!

Not even going to mention distance of the drop for the Brit Airbourne............sort of took away the speed and violence factor!!

I could go on.......I'll stop.

Well said Canuck in so few words. We hit the same points with our critiques. Scary.

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..........what's wrong with Monty?

Every documentary I've seen they've had the Americans critisizing old Monty, which is natural. The British weren't happy under American control, either.

Not like any of the American commanders ever ######ed anything up, oh no.

Geg, some of the most interesting criticism I read came not from Americans, but British. On his OWN staff none the less.

America has had its share of foul ups. Halsey chasing the bait during "The Battle of the Phillipine Sea", or Patton and the infamous "striking" incident. And Monty's criticism of US troops through out the war is well documented. Carefull Bro.

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