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Avenging Scimitar Campaign: High cost Missions


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I've just flown a SEAD mission (level 3) where I was the lead of the strike group. It was to knock-out an EWR centre for which there was only two targets. We were accompanied by 4 escort (Mirage)and 8 wild weasel (JSF'S I think). We encountered no enemy ground cover (SAM's etc) and apart from a group of two F22 enemy fighters (who seemed to fly close cover for us at one stage :blink: ), the mission went according to plan apart from the fatality cost to my escort and wild weasels:

Strike: 4 returned safely

Escort: 2 deceased, 2 ejected

w/w one: 4 deceased

w/w two: 1 deceased, 1 eject, 2 returned safely

That's 5 out 16 only made it home, but the mission was classed as successful. :o

I know that' a problem with the TAW game setup (can't think what you call that) but I have no control over the accompanying packages (or don't think I do). I would expect the enemy F22's to inflict heavy losses on Mirage and JSF's, but I think the ejections were caused by the "auto select weapons" not providing sufficient fuel.

But my concern is the initial choice of the complete package made by the TAW game setup. Recon. and AWACS showed there was no evidence of SAM sites on ingress or egress and addition fuel should have been mandatory.

My preference would have been to have gone in with one LEAD and one ESCORT F22. Internal weapons only (think I can carry A-G internally). Full stealth at 200ft. This would have given the LEAD complete control of the mission and mission losses could be kept to a minimum. Maybe I can edit the package to do just that? Must check.

My2c worth ;)

Oh ....... I've been given the job of contacting the families of the dead flight crew.

No joking; every time an AI aircraft (ally or enemy) hit the dirt I feel it. God knows, what it must be like in the real world. I dread to think ..... :(

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I've just flown a SEAD mission (level 3) where I was the lead of the strike group. It was to knock-out an EWR centre for which there was only two targets. We were accompanied by 4 escort (Mirage)and 8 wild weasel (JSF'S I think). We encountered no enemy ground cover (SAM's etc) and apart from a group of two F22 enemy fighters (who seemed to fly close cover for us at one stage :blink: ), the mission went according to plan apart from the fatality cost to my escort and wild weasels:

Strike: 4 returned safely

Escort: 2 deceased, 2 ejected

w/w one: 4 deceased

w/w two: 1 deceased, 1 eject, 2 returned safely

That's 5 out 16 only made it home, but the mission was classed as successful. :o

I know that' a problem with the TAW game setup (can't think what you call that) but I have no control over the accompanying packages (or don't think I do). I would expect the enemy F22's to inflict heavy losses on Mirage and JSF's, but I think the ejections were caused by the "auto select weapons" not providing sufficient fuel.

But my concern is the initial choice of the complete package made by the TAW game setup. Recon. and AWACS showed there was no evidence of SAM sites on ingress or egress and addition fuel should have been mandatory.

My preference would have been to have gone in with one LEAD and one ESCORT F22. Internal weapons only (think I can carry A-G internally). Full stealth at 200ft. This would have given the LEAD complete control of the mission and mission losses could be kept to a minimum. Maybe I can edit the package to do just that? Must check.

My2c worth ;)

Oh ....... I've been given the job of contacting the families of the dead flight crew.

No joking; every time an AI aircraft (ally or enemy) hit the dirt I feel it. God knows, what it must be like in the real world. I dread to think ..... :(

In the immortal words of "Goose", "The Defense Department regrets to inform you that your sons are dead because they were stupid!"

Unfortunately, this often applies to the AI. Makes sense that it might be the fuel, though you can manually adjust your strike package, including which aircraft does what (planes subject to availability) and how many of what package (e.g. do you want another strike flight, 2 SEAD, or 2 Escort?), and weapons loadout as well. Often the selected loadout is not ideal for the mission at hand (who ever heard of a WW flight carrying rockets instead of HARMs or Mavericks?), and this also sometimes means that the external fuel tanks aren't loaded for long flights.

You make a great point that you can't depend on the computer to give you the optimal loadout. If you have concerns, then use the loadout that provides for external tanks in lieu of two additional weapons on the hardpoints. Unfortunately, there's no real way of knowing whether you need extra tanks for your support aircraft (though I always use 1000nm as a point with the F-22 where I start to consider it)

Hopefully someone else can chime in on this discussion.

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Unfortunately, this often applies to the AI. Makes sense that it might be the fuel, though you can manually adjust your strike package, including which aircraft does what (planes subject to availability) and how many of what package (e.g. do you want another strike flight, 2 SEAD, or 2 Escort?), and weapons loadout as well. Often the selected loadout is not ideal for the mission at hand (who ever heard of a WW flight carrying rockets instead of HARMs or Mavericks?), and this also sometimes means that the external fuel tanks aren't loaded for long flights.

You make a great point that you can't depend on the computer to give you the optimal loadout. If you have concerns, then use the loadout that provides for external tanks in lieu of two additional weapons on the hardpoints. Unfortunately, there's no real way of knowing whether you need extra tanks for your support aircraft (though I always use 1000nm as a point with the F-22 where I start to consider it)

Hopefully someone else can chime in on this discussion.

Thanks. I spend quite a bit of time pre-planning missions, but mostly concentrating on my flight. However I'm going to spend more time on the accompanying flights. I don't want them to become just chicken fodder. When they do there job properly it really good. Bit like that unedited TAWBC Training Strike flight I enjoy.

That 1000nm per tank for F22 is useful.

But what about other aircraft: F16's, Mirage's, etc? Might do some recording of there capacities using Smart Views.

Also nice to see the computer modeling cover the effects of carrying large pay-loads. Seems to effect fuel consumption, speed and maneuverability. Although not sure about maneuverability.

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Oh this is better!

Airfield denial.

16 planes in package

My group Wild Weasel armed with Mavericks (6 each)

We got well out in front

Plastered every SAM, etc at the site well before the strike group arrived.

On way home we watched them on Channel F12 take out their targets.

Long flight and wingmen running short on fuel so we landed and topped, before proceeding.

Only lost one of our number (a WW from the other group). He must have fallen asleep with nothing to do!

Funny though. When checking our success the airfield was not listed as a designated target (Mecca).

Also nothing scrambled to intercept us. We picked them off on the ground for supper. :unsure:

Also interesting the support groups of non F22's have strike packages for you to select, but no custom select which I would prefer. Not sure if there had been a support group of F22's if they could have been custom fitted out.

In general it been fairly easy so far and enemy seem rather quiet. I'm about 20hrs in and I am surprised I've not been given a chance to manage the War from an AWAC. The missions just don't present themselves.

Hope all this is useful Beta material ......

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In general it been fairly easy so far and enemy seem rather quiet. I'm about 20hrs in and I am surprised I've not been given a chance to manage the War from an AWAC. The missions just don't present themselves.

I read another TAW post on a separate site saying that AWACS birds in campaigns tend to lawn dart upon landing. This might be part of the problem. The best time to do AWACS missions is in the first 6 hours of the campaign (when you are completely defensive); these are a blast. Once you go offensive, strikes are better anyway.

Any other contributors on the AWACS as lawn dart theory?

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I read another TAW post on a separate site saying that AWACS birds in campaigns tend to lawn dart upon landing. This might be part of the problem. The best time to do AWACS missions is in the first 6 hours of the campaign (when you are completely defensive); these are a blast. Once you go offensive, strikes are better anyway.

Any other contributors on the AWACS as lawn dart theory?

Yes in hindsight I think there where AWAC missions in the first 6 hours.

There seems to be a huge difference in enemy response to airbase strikes. I flew one last night and out of the package of 12 only I and one wingman got home! :( We were the strike group and we had to take out enemy scramblers as the escort where destroyed because the WW where late in arriving to take out the SAMs! It is frustrating to see the the AI packages not doing there job. Surely the WW group has to arrive first?

The next mission I was the lead of a WW group. The mission was worth 6000points. There where no SAMs, no scramble take-offs, no ground vehicles, nothing. Naturally the flight was a complete success even though it was deep into enemy territory.

I don't mind that, but its just that many pre-planning issues are out of your hands. I even loaded up my strike group with Mavericks to cover the possible frustrating lack of performance by the WW group. But when I tell my wingman to take out the the SAMs they say "Negative". I assume they are not multi-skilled .... ;)

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I read another TAW post on a separate site saying that AWACS birds in campaigns tend to lawn dart upon landing. This might be part of the problem. The best time to do AWACS missions is in the first 6 hours of the campaign (when you are completely defensive); these are a blast. Once you go offensive, strikes are better anyway.

Any other contributors on the AWACS as lawn dart theory?

I remember a discussion on the missing AWACS on one of the older boards. The discussion revolved around the reasons for AWACS being destroyed resulting from running out of fuel or by enemy fighters. Since I had in the past used the AWACS missions to use F22's that I had "loaded up" at a specific target area I do remember times where I was in an AWACS mission and right after exiting the AWACS was destroyed even though it had fuel and there were no enemy aircraft in the area. Someone suggested that the AWACS was "scheduled" for destruction in certain campaigns in the .mdl file. There was a method in which you could determine at what point the AWACS would be destroyed and then edit the file to change that or even bring it back. I know that I tried it a couple of times, but it's been so long since I tried it, that I really don't remember the specific procedure. I might go into one of my old .mdl files and see if I can refresh my memory on this. It is definitely a useful tool if you like to set up large sorties of F22's and jump in and out of the AWACS to use them.

At one time I had copied a good deal of the threads that contained information regarding strategy like that when it became apparent that DiD was going to dicontinue their TAW board. Unfortunately, I can't seem to be able to find the disks that I stored them on. I do remember that I did paste some of them into some threads on the SimHQ board, but I don't know if they are still there or not.

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