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Severe stability issues with TAW 2.16a


4X-AXG
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Hello fellow pilots,

let me first thank ALL you for all your time and efforts to keep the ADF/TAW game and community alive. This game (and I specifically mean TAW) was and still is the best flight combinat simulator ever.

And thus, I was extremely happy to discover there was now version compatible with the latest (64 bit) operating systems. I am, however, experiencing some serious unstability issues with TAW 2.16a. First, my specs:

Intel i7 920

6 GB Corsair RAM

Gainward GTX 260

W7 Ultimate 64 bit

(if you need more info let me know..)

Summed up, these are my problems. I am experiencing severe stability issues, no matter which graphical option I choose:

Direct3D: random lockups in game, sound starts looping, only solution is to shutdown f22.dat

dgVoodoo Glide: somewhat the most stable option so far, but random 'program fault' (see image)

Zeckensack Glide: upon entering game/mission f22.dat immediately stops working

3DFX: same as Zeckensack

I am running these two files in compatability mode:

_f22.exe - XP SP2, visual themes disabled and desktop features disabled

tbcp.exe - identical as above

So, I am pretty much at a loss here. All options are unstable and the only recurring event I can somewhat pin down is that the longer the mission takes, the higher the risk of a crash. Sometimes I think using shift+T also increases the risk of a crash, but I can't prove this.

Do you guys have any suggestions? I'm totally addicted again to this amazing game, but to experience a program crash or lockup after an hour long mission with destroying dozens of fighters and/or buildings is VERY frustrating..

Thanks a lot for your help and keep up the good work!

Ruud

attached image:

progrma_fault.jpg

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Hello fellow pilots,

let me first thank ALL you for all your time and efforts to keep the ADF/TAW game and community alive. This game (and I specifically mean TAW) was and still is the best flight combinat simulator ever.

And thus, I was extremely happy to discover there was now version compatible with the latest (64 bit) operating systems. I am, however, experiencing some serious unstability issues with TAW 2.16a. First, my specs:

Intel i7 920

6 GB Corsair RAM

Gainward GTX 260

W7 Ultimate 64 bit

(if you need more info let me know..)

...

I am running these two files in compatability mode:

_f22.exe - XP SP2, visual themes disabled and desktop features disabled

tbcp.exe - identical as above

Ruud,

Welcome to the forums. It's too bad that your first visit pertains to CTDs. Let's go ahead and address this.

The system specs you provided should be enough for now. As far as compatibility mode goes, you do not need themes disabled. I assume "desktop features disabled" is the Win7 version of "disable desktop composition"; this is good to have on. You also don't need any compatibility settings for tbcp (since it only points to the _f22.exe), though given the x64 nature of your system you may need to run the application compatibility pack, which is included with TAW 2.0. Instructions for this can be found in the TAW 2.0 Manual Addendum.

That said, none of the above are likely to be causing your CTD. I'm honestly not sure what the problem could be, so I'll give you some suggestions.;

Summed up, these are my problems. I am experiencing severe stability issues, no matter which graphical option I choose:

Direct3D: random lockups in game, sound starts looping, only solution is to shutdown f22.dat

dgVoodoo Glide: somewhat the most stable option so far, but random 'program fault' (see image)

Zeckensack Glide: upon entering game/mission f22.dat immediately stops working

3DFX: same as Zeckensack

Starting with Zeckensack, the first time you run TAW with the Zeckensack wrapper, you should expect a CTD. You then must go into the zeckensack configurator and select "Render Thread". Details on setting up Zeckensack's wrapper can be found in the TAW 2.0 Manual Addendum.

3DFX will be the same as Zeckensack because there is no functional difference between the 3rd party glide wrapper and the 3DFX hardware radio buttons. These options were split out to reduce confusion.

With D3D, there are known issues with modern video cards. The problem manifests itself primarily when going into Smartview (i.e. F12 view). Likewise, if you use the 1024x768 version of D3D, you will CTD when you try to enter the Options menu.

Which leaves dgVoodoo. First of all, given your hardware you should be using dgVoodoo's D3D9 renderer. TAW 2.0 defaults to D3D7 for max compatibility purposes, but you will get much better performance with D3D9, and perhaps increased stability as well. With the next TAW release, you will be able to select whether to default to D3D7 or D3D9 during installation, though you will still be able to switch dgVoodoo renderers like you can now.

So, I am pretty much at a loss here. All options are unstable and the only recurring event I can somewhat pin down is that the longer the mission takes, the higher the risk of a crash. Sometimes I think using shift+T also increases the risk of a crash, but I can't prove this.

Other pertinent data includes what you are doing at the time of the CTD. What altitude were you at, were you flying into the sun, and were you actually doing anything (like shooting). I ask this because I've encountered issues when I would be strafing ground targets (and who doesn't enjoy going gunzo on oil crackers?). If I shot a target then flew through the smoke, that would cause a CTD, so I have to ask about any consistency between activities at the time of the crash.

Thanks a lot for your help and keep up the good work!

You're quite welcome.

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Ruud,

Welcome to the forums. It's too bad that your first visit pertains to CTDs. Let's go ahead and address this.

The system specs you provided should be enough for now. As far as compatibility mode goes, you do not need themes disabled. I assume "desktop features disabled" is the Win7 version of "disable desktop composition"; this is good to have on. You also don't need any compatibility settings for tbcp (since it only points to the _f22.exe), though given the x64 nature of your system you may need to run the application compatibility pack, which is included with TAW 2.0. Instructions for this can be found in the TAW 2.0 Manual Addendum.

That said, none of the above are likely to be causing your CTD. I'm honestly not sure what the problem could be, so I'll give you some suggestions.;

Starting with Zeckensack, the first time you run TAW with the Zeckensack wrapper, you should expect a CTD. You then must go into the zeckensack configurator and select "Render Thread". Details on setting up Zeckensack's wrapper can be found in the TAW 2.0 Manual Addendum.

3DFX will be the same as Zeckensack because there is no functional difference between the 3rd party glide wrapper and the 3DFX hardware radio buttons. These options were split out to reduce confusion.

With D3D, there are known issues with modern video cards. The problem manifests itself primarily when going into Smartview (i.e. F12 view). Likewise, if you use the 1024x768 version of D3D, you will CTD when you try to enter the Options menu.

Which leaves dgVoodoo. First of all, given your hardware you should be using dgVoodoo's D3D9 renderer. TAW 2.0 defaults to D3D7 for max compatibility purposes, but you will get much better performance with D3D9, and perhaps increased stability as well. With the next TAW release, you will be able to select whether to default to D3D7 or D3D9 during installation, though you will still be able to switch dgVoodoo renderers like you can now.

Other pertinent data includes what you are doing at the time of the CTD. What altitude were you at, were you flying into the sun, and were you actually doing anything (like shooting). I ask this because I've encountered issues when I would be strafing ground targets (and who doesn't enjoy going gunzo on oil crackers?). If I shot a target then flew through the smoke, that would cause a CTD, so I have to ask about any consistency between activities at the time of the crash.

You're quite welcome.

Welcome to the forum. Another TAW returning flier. Shame about your CTD's :( , but if anybody can help HF can. It's normally so stable. Good luck. I'll be worth the effort. TAW2.0 is heaps better than TAW and I bet you think that'll be hard. But its true. We'll be watching. :thumbsup:

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Hi HF & Wombat,

thanks for your thorough replies. There are so many options and choices to chose from, it's hard to pinpoint the problem. The D3D9 option gives me trouble too..when inside the cockpit, it seems like the framerates are very low causing stutters..when using outside views, everything is fine.

The crashes are occuring at random times, I guess. Sometimes while shooting/attacking, sometimes while cruising, sometimes only a few minutes into a flight, and sometimes after a 30 or 45 minute flight. I've finished plenty of missions without any crash too.

I will try to do some more testing this weekend..I really hope to get this game stable because the dynamic campaigns are still amazing. We really need a combat with the state-of-the-art graphics with the gameplay and campaign style like TAW! :)

Thanks again,

Ruud

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Hi HF & Wombat,

thanks for your thorough replies. There are so many options and choices to chose from, it's hard to pinpoint the problem. The D3D9 option gives me trouble too..when inside the cockpit, it seems like the framerates are very low causing stutters..when using outside views, everything is fine.

Can you do a FRAPS test just for interest.

The crashes are occuring at random times, I guess. Sometimes while shooting/attacking, sometimes while cruising, sometimes only a few minutes into a flight, and sometimes after a 30 or 45 minute flight. I've finished plenty of missions without any crash too.

One crash is one crash too many. Did we suggest installing on another computer just to check? If it makes you feel better, my PC won't play the recorded ACMI's. :angry: So I have to copy them to a flash drive and run them on TAW2.0 installed on my Notebook. :lol:

I will try to do some more testing this weekend..I really hope to get this game stable because the dynamic campaigns are still amazing. We really need a combat with the state-of-the-art graphics with the gameplay and campaign style like TAW! :)

We await with interest. :icon_salute3:

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Unfortunately I have some bad news. I have no luck yet in getting TAW stable..I've played a bit with Zeckensack's wrapper, but this option causes a new CTD..after landing and pressing 'e' to end the mission, everything goes fine, until at the screen where my kills are listed, I press 'okay' and thats when TAW crashes. With dgVoodoo I still get random 'clean up and exiting' CTDs, and with the D3D options I get random F22.dat has stopped working CTDs. I am unable to dest D3D9 due to framerate issues while in cockpit view.

So at this point I'm pretty much out of options. Do you guys have any other suggestion I can try? It's not my hardware (cpu, motherboard, ram) because other games are very stable. And since TAW 2.0 is stable at other users using W7 64bit...

I'll do the FRAPS test sometime this weekend.

regards,

Ruud

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.......... we suggest installing on another computer just to check? ........

I did suggest this previously. Have you tried it? It would define your problem as your computer or your installation process or the download.

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Since TAW is crashing in the 2D interface the problem may be W7 x64. x64 adds a new layer of data execution prevention, which may be part of the issue. TAW works in Vista x64 with no probs, but there may be a new DEP wrinklle in W7 I don't know about. Also, see if you are running any Windows Explorer or shell extensions; TortoiseSVN in particular has caused some problems.

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Guys,

HF, you're reference to the W7 DRM issue was very helpful. I decided to run both _f22.exe and tbcp.exe in administrator mode and voila..the crash to desktop after finishing a mission is gone! Well, it happened one time since, but I've done at least ten missions without a crash. This is in combation with Zeckensacks wrapper.

The bad news is..I just lost the war with Flame Out :( ran out of time..

PS..off topic..with Flame Out, you start out with Djibouti vs Eritrea. In my case, first Yemen joined as an ally, then Ethiopia as an enemy, and last Somalia as an ally. Is this scripted or does this not happen everytime?

Thanks again for your help :)

Ruud

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Guys,

HF, you're reference to the W7 DRM issue was very helpful. I decided to run both _f22.exe and tbcp.exe in administrator mode and voila..the crash to desktop after finishing a mission is gone! Well, it happened one time since, but I've done at least ten missions without a crash. This is in combation with Zeckensacks wrapper.

The bad news is..I just lost the war with Flame Out :( ran out of time..

PS..off topic..with Flame Out, you start out with Djibouti vs Eritrea. In my case, first Yemen joined as an ally, then Ethiopia as an enemy, and last Somalia as an ally. Is this scripted or does this not happen everytime?

Thanks again for your help :)

Ruud

:thumbsup: Its great to see it appears you have it fixed. Now to the important things. ;)

We would love to see you at Multiplay

("Battie, just because we gave you a badge with 'Multiplay Recruitment Officer' on it, doesn't mean you can make a nuisance of yourself.")

Sorry about that 4X but I have no trouble selling a good thing when its free.

If you're even the slightest bit interested, or just for a look, go here:

and if my sales pitch inspires you, here:

If not? ....... Well enjoy your single play campaigns. :thumbsup:

PS. There are tips here somewhere on how best to play the campaigns.

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Glad you got it working, Ruud.

Interesting thing about setting it to run as admin. I wonder if DEP is handled more rigidly in W7 x64, as I had understood that W7 actually lightened up on a number of Vista's security measures (i.e. UAC). If I understand correctly that you just set TAW to Run as Admin (the Launcher shouldn't matter, though I would be interested to hear your feedback if it does), then I will add that as a troubleshooting suggestion.

If you did not run the Application Compatibility Manager to set up the DEP settings, then you will still want to do this. Otherwise you are likely to CTD when you try to go to the common dialog present in both the launcher and the TAWBC Mission Enhancer.

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