Jump to content

Best way to launch decoys?


MonsterZero
 Share

Recommended Posts

I have the Saitek X-52 control system and have most of the buttons programmed by now so I need to be conservative with the button assignments.

First of all, I know the airplane can launch flares/chaff under computer control but I don't know if I can trust the computer on this.

If I program some joystick button for manual decoys should I have a button for chaff and a separate button for flares or should I program just 1 button to drop both chaff and flares simultaneously?

What do you recommend and what's your joystick configuration?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have the Saitek X-52 control system and have most of the buttons programmed by now so I need to be conservative with the button assignments.

First of all, I know the airplane can launch flares/chaff under computer control but I don't know if I can trust the computer on this.

If I program some joystick button for manual decoys should I have a button for chaff and a separate button for flares or should I program just 1 button to drop both chaff and flares simultaneously?

What do you recommend and what's your joystick configuration?

Interesting. Can't help with the decoys, I've never used them. The decoys were never available when I played TAW and so I've tended to ignore them in TAW2.0.

Its somewhat similar with chaff and flares. Historically I've programmed a single button to drop bunches of each irrespective of what type of missile has me targeted. I don't seem to run out of either (although I do joke about the same ;) ) possibly because I use them very sparingly. That's because its the timing of their use that is critical (My PM friends have taught me that) not the amount you use. If you select EMCON 5 your F22 will decide when to use them, but I don't always trust it and the last thing you want to do is fly around in EMCON 5 all day.

I'll be very interested to see what others have to say.

In regard to your comment "have (used) most of the buttons programmed by now"., I'm surprised. The X52 seems to have a huge amount of button, particularly with the choice of 3 modes. I think I'm a bit different to others here when programming my joystick and throttle. Firstly I like to develop my own. No offense to to all those other pilot setups that are available, it just that I have my favourite Buttons and Hats, programmed with my favourite functions so in "panic mode" I can hit the right button without thinking about it. :lol: Bit like we all do with the trigger. We all know instantaneously where that is. Likewise, not like some, I don't program every function to the stick. As an example I don't program "Say my Takeoff". I just hit <1> <2> <1> on the keyboard when I climb in the 'pit. However "Finals" <1> <2> <6> is programmed because I don't want to let go of the stick during landing. Enjoy.

I know Neph has a nice X52 configuration which he makes readily available.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The auto one is very good! Now, my use and teachings is that it tells me WHEN to start chaffing, from there amount and random chance seems to factor it.

In short, your chaff / flares will have an effect on the missile when the auto system starts popping them.

At that point it is time to start to worry about the missile that is coming at you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First of all, I know the airplane can launch flares/chaff under computer control but I don't know if I can trust the computer on this.

You can, it does that right. Better than you.

But sometimes you might save your ass in a disoriented situation by pumping chaff or flares like crazy. The computer would anyway.

I have a whole Dogfight Mode, when I turn the rotary to middle (violet), it activates EMCON 5, zooms out, simplifies controls by ditching functions you don't need in dogfight but might accidentally activate.

BTW they are countermeasures, not decoys. Decoys are a whole other deal.

If I program some joystick button for manual decoys should I have a button for chaff and a separate button for flares or should I program just 1 button to drop both chaff and flares simultaneously?

Generally you should have them separate. Flares are for IR, chaff for RF missiles.

However it may be a bit difficult to find buttons you don't lose in evasion, so I personally just have a macro with 3 of each on Launch, as I rarely use them manually, plus chaff and flares separately on stick base toggles.

Despite Wombat's personal mistrust, you should go EMCON 5 the moment things even begin getting hot. Don't even wait for missiles to start flying, just go there the moment you're seen anyway. X52 is great for that - set the "precision" slide to 4 bands, 0-10%, 10-40%, 40%-85%, 85%-100%, for EMCON 1, 2, 3, 5 respectively. Just slide it where you need it, takes a quarter second and half a thought.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can, it does that right. Better than you.

But sometimes you might save your ass in a disoriented situation by pumping chaff or flares like crazy. The computer would anyway.

I have a whole Dogfight Mode, when I turn the rotary to middle (violet), it activates EMCON 5, zooms out, simplifies controls by ditching functions you don't need in dogfight but might accidentally activate.

BTW they are countermeasures, not decoys. Decoys are a whole other deal.

Generally you should have them separate. Flares are for IR, chaff for RF missiles.

However it may be a bit difficult to find buttons you don't lose in evasion, so I personally just have a macro with 3 of each on Launch, as I rarely use them manually, plus chaff and flares separately on stick base toggles.

Despite Wombat's personal mistrust, you should go EMCON 5 the moment things even begin getting hot. Don't even wait for missiles to start flying, just go there the moment you're seen anyway. X52 is great for that - set the "precision" slide to 4 bands, 0-10%, 10-40%, 40%-85%, 85%-100%, for EMCON 1, 2, 3, 5 respectively. Just slide it where you need it, takes a quarter second and half a thought.

I think the bit in red is the critical bit. Other times stay stealthy.

I don't use EMCON 2, except if in a very stealthy mission. The stealth gain is very small and you cannot communicate below EMCON 2, which can be annoyingly overlooked when flying continuously in E1.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

EMCON 2 is my default transit state when I fly with external stores. Your RCS may not be that much different, but the fact that you aren't emitting radar means that the bad guys actually have to find you.

Think about those SAMs along the route that don't pop up on the MFD until they light you up. EMCON 2 vs. 3 is the same way. Might as well make them work to find you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

HF: Since you are one of the few people who know the inner workings of this game, I've been wondering about one thing. Is the detection range displayed on your defense MFD the absolute in-game truth, i.e. being in the cone or out of it means enemy aircraft can or can't detect you with radars, or is it an independent routine, which does not necessarily correspond with actual detection?

I think the bit in red is the critical bit. Other times stay stealthy.

Can't say I fully agree - there's no need to stay stealthy most of the time. In single-player, when on CAP, you on the contrary want to be detected, and you want to be detected on the return leg if you have unspent AAM, and sometimes the mission is just so easy you want a chance to get more work done. Not very realistic, but still.

In multiplayer, it's even less pro-stealth. I often feel like my SP habits are a problem - I tend to stay alive in the end of the mission (so far I've only been downed once in coop, was actually surprised to respawn), but also usually with unspent munitions. The SP habits of flying high to maintain an energy reserve and extra fuel, waiting for a good Pk before shooting, and, yes, avoiding detection all lead to fewer kills in exchange for survivability. So, in MP, it seems like except for the most challenging missions it's best to maintain EMCON 5 throughout to increase the number of engagements, only dropping to 1-2 in SEAD with AGM-88 or internal AGM-65.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

HF: Since you are one of the few people who know the inner workings of this game, I've been wondering about one thing. Is the detection range displayed on your defense MFD the absolute in-game truth, i.e. being in the cone or out of it means enemy aircraft can or can't detect you with radars, or is it an independent routine, which does not necessarily correspond with actual detection?

I think you give me too much credit. I don't know the answer to this, though I suspect that the routines are not independent because the sim was built for the Pentium II and it also makes for better playability to have the display=real life.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

HF: Since you are one of the few people who know the inner workings of this game, I've been wondering about one thing. Is the detection range displayed on your defense MFD the absolute in-game truth, i.e. being in the cone or out of it means enemy aircraft can or can't detect you with radars, or is it an independent routine, which does not necessarily correspond with actual detection?

Can't say I fully agree - there's no need to stay stealthy most of the time. In single-player, when on CAP, you on the contrary want to be detected, and you want to be detected on the return leg if you have unspent AAM, and sometimes the mission is just so easy you want a chance to get more work done. Not very realistic, but still.

In multiplayer, it's even less pro-stealth. I often feel like my SP habits are a problem - I tend to stay alive in the end of the mission (so far I've only been downed once in coop, was actually surprised to respawn), but also usually with unspent munitions. The SP habits of flying high to maintain an energy reserve and extra fuel, waiting for a good Pk before shooting, and, yes, avoiding detection all lead to fewer kills in exchange for survivability. So, in MP, it seems like except for the most challenging missions it's best to maintain EMCON 5 throughout to increase the number of engagements, only dropping to 1-2 in SEAD with AGM-88 or internal AGM-65.

Ye ..... I suppose its what you're seeking as to whether its E5 or E2. I'm aways keen to get my package home in SP. Therefore its full stealth for me with mission successes in Avenging Scimitar 100% in deep strike missions so far. We carry so little. Mind you if we were to be seen it might be a different story. But they never see us. In MP I again like to stay alive, but not, hopefully, at the expense of other MP pilots in the package. I do hang back a bit, but that's because my SA is not always what it should be. :( So I tend to be a follower. However, when exposed, its straight to E5 and I love it. Heaven forbid I need to respawn and if it happens I think I'll sit on the end of runway and sulk ...... :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Ye ..... I suppose its what you're seeking as to whether its E5 or E2. I'm aways keen to get my package home in SP. Therefore its full stealth for me with mission successes in Avenging Scimitar 100% in deep strike missions so far. We carry so little. Mind you if we were to be seen it might be a different story. But they never see us. In MP I again like to stay alive, but not, hopefully, at the expense of other MP pilots in the package. I do hang back a bit, but that's because my SA is not always what it should be. :( So I tend to be a follower. However, when exposed, its straight to E5 and I love it. Heaven forbid I need to respawn and if it happens I think I'll sit on the end of runway and sulk ...... :lol:

Even though this thread got off of the original subject I think this kind of cross talk can be beneficial to new pilots.

The ecom settings are very important and I for one like to know how others approach it. Maybe we need to start a new subject with general questions and have all the aces in the group chime in on what works for them. I could definitely learn from it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Even though this thread got off of the original subject I think this kind of cross talk can be beneficial to new pilots.

The ecom settings are very important and I for one like to know how others approach it. Maybe we need to start a new subject with general questions and have all the aces in the group chime in on what works for them. I could definitely learn from it.

Well my understanding here during MP is "E2 push 2" and we stay in that so as to stay relatively stealthy and we can chat.

However once locked up its E5 for me. No point in hiding any more, they've seen me. E5 will auto release chaff and/or flares at the optimum moment and very effectively and sparingly too. That was my problem today: I tried to manually spoof the missiles in E2 but twice got hit mainly because I was partly distracted by something else. If I'd switch to E5 it would not have been a distraction.

But there are more detailed options which others might provide.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...