Jump to content

Unable to fire an A to A weapon


Wombat1940
 Share

Recommended Posts

Apart from not being able to slew the radar cursors over an A to A target, lets kept it even simpler. I am unable to fire an A to A missile using the designated spacebar key.

I believe I should be able to fire an A to A missile off the rail without having a bandit radar locked providing:

The weapon is loaded;

The Master Arm is on (that is pushed up on the instrument panel);

The A to A mode is selected on the ICP;

The spacebar is the default loaded key to launch and is used to launch;

The weapon loaded is select and indicated in the HUD.

The outcome is the same in AF and BMS4: weapon does not fire.

What am I missing or doing wrong? Thank you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Apart from not being able to slew the radar cursors over an A to A target, lets kept it even simpler. I am unable to fire an A to A missile using the designated spacebar key.

I believe I should be able to fire an A to A missile off the rail without having a bandit radar locked providing:

The weapon is loaded;

The Master Arm is on (that is pushed up on the instrument panel);

The A to A mode is selected on the ICP;

The spacebar is the default loaded key to launch and is used to launch;

The weapon loaded is select and indicated in the HUD.

The outcome is the same in AF and BMS4: weapon does not fire.

What am I missing or doing wrong? Thank you.

STOP LOOKING!!! Its fixed. It fixed itself. But how? Only thing I did was pickle with my S2 button on the Cougar (which is programmed to <SPACEBAR>) and the weapon came off the rail. Then I pressed the <SPACEBAR> on the keyboard and it fired another A-A weapon. :icon_bow: But why now and not before?

But it raises a new question for me.

How do you program the Cougar to recognize the difference between the Keypad up, down, left, right keys and the keyboard up, down, left, right keys? For example does the Cougar differentiate between <UARROW> on the keyboard and <KP8> on the Numeric Keypad?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

STOP LOOKING!!! Its fixed. It fixed itself. But how? Only thing I did was pickle with my S2 button on the Cougar (which is programmed to <SPACEBAR>) and the weapon came off the rail. Then I pressed the <SPACEBAR> on the keyboard and it fired another A-A weapon. :icon_bow: But why now and not before?

But it raises a new question for me.

How do you program the Cougar to recognize the difference between the Keypad up, down, left, right keys and the keyboard up, down, left, right keys? For example does the Cougar differentiate between <UARROW> on the keyboard and <KP8> on the Numeric Keypad?

Yes. You just described how it differentiates (Cougar doesn't care whether Numlock is active)

Are you using my profile? If so, are you using the BMS.key or BMS-HF.key file?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes. You just described how it differentiates (Cougar doesn't care whether Numlock is active)

Are you using my profile? If so, are you using the BMS.key or BMS-HF.key file?

I am not using either the BMS.key or BMS.key files. I use the keyboard.key file.

I'm actually using a profile from 72nd which was my favorite with F4AF. I've modified it to suit BMS4 but I think I'm getting a conflict between the <ARROW> keys on the Keyboard and <ARROW> keys on the Numerical Keypad. The latter keys are used to look around in the cockpit (with TrackIR turned off) in the 2D and 3D modes. The former are used to move the Radar Cursor in the MFD. But the Cougar see the keys as the same thing and accepts the Keypad option and ignores the Keyboard option. If I close down my Cougar and set up the Keyboard as my Controller there is no problem. The Keypad and Keyboard keys perform their respect <ARROW> tasks correctly. But then I have to fly the plane with the keyboard and not my Cougar.

However you have given me a very important clue: what does the BMS.key file use to move the Radar Cursor? :unsure: YES! <F8>, F9>, F10>, <F11>. Hopefully I have the answer. ;) Stay tuned.

Just a personal thank you to Neph for yesterday and getting me this far. Its amazing what extra I have learned in "digging" to get to the final stage completed. I'm dying to call: "Pitball!" :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wombat,

Depending on whether you are using a custom key file from the 72nd, or whether the existing AF profile has some incompatibilities, that may be part of the problem.

You really want to use BMS.key (or one of its derivatives). BMS.key allows the following nice features:

  • Numeric keypad as the ICP without shifting
  • Arrow keys as the DCS
  • INS/DEL six-pack as RWR control and ICP up/down rocker switch
  • Defaults the Cougar DirectX buttons to the real-world F-16 counterparts

This is to say that if you use BMS.key and don't even load a cougar profile, you will get full functionality of your HOTAS. BMS now uses TMS/DMS/CMS type commands to provide context-sensitive instruction to the sim based on your HOTAS inputs; something that AF only partially implemented. Any "old" profile will sacrifice this great ability. Likewise, if you look at my profile, it was designed with the TrackIR user in mind, so that the trim button defaults to trim as opposed to view.

Not so much trying to sell my profile, but you would likely be better off running the Cougar in DirectX mode with the BMS.key than you would running an AF profile with the default keyset.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am not using either the BMS.key or BMS.key files. I use the keyboard.key file.

I'm actually using a profile from 72nd which was my favorite with F4AF. I've modified it to suit BMS4 but I think I'm getting a conflict between the <ARROW> keys on the Keyboard and <ARROW> keys on the Numerical Keypad. The latter keys are used to look around in the cockpit (with TrackIR turned off) in the 2D and 3D modes. The former are used to move the Radar Cursor in the MFD. But the Cougar see the keys as the same thing and accepts the Keypad option and ignores the Keyboard option. If I close down my Cougar and set up the Keyboard as my Controller there is no problem. The Keypad and Keyboard keys perform their respect <ARROW> tasks correctly. But then I have to fly the plane with the keyboard and not my Cougar.

However you have given me a very important clue: what does the BMS.key file use to move the Radar Cursor? :unsure: YES! <F8>, F9>, F10>, <F11>. Hopefully I have the answer. ;) Stay tuned.

Just a personal thank you to Neph for yesterday and getting me this far. Its amazing what extra I have learned in "digging" to get to the final stage completed. I'm dying to call: "Pitball!" :lol:

Well its been along and frustrating process, but I now can move the Radar Cursor and position over a target with the use of the Keyboard <ARROW> keys. :rolleyes: It was a matter of re-initiating the micro-stick and transferring its X and Y axis to the keyboard. So the microstick movements of the cursor are now handle by the Keyboard <ARROW> keys as mapped in the .key file. I have never liked using the Microstick because of its oversensitivity and more importantly having a tendency to drift. Its been a long process and I'm too exhausted to celebrate. :wtf:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why the arrow keys? Why not digitally map the F-keys to the microstick; that way you don't have to worry about drift (it's a binary axis at that point)?

I hope you saved your remap as something else other than BMS.key; you probably want to get that back, since remapping the arrow keys loses you the DCS.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why the arrow keys? Why not digitally map the F-keys to the microstick; that way you don't have to worry about drift (it's a binary axis at that point)?

I hope you saved your remap as something else other than BMS.key; you probably want to get that back, since remapping the arrow keys loses you the DCS.

Its one small step at a time. My objective: to move the Radar Cursor over a target using the Keyboard <ARROW> keys as is mapped in the .key file. Mission successful. The BMS.key requirement, the DSC were never in the equation. Its one small step at a time .......

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I might add and IMHO the follow quote from the BMS4 forum post yesterday says it all:

" ........ The other thing I prefer is to setup the stick myself, because that it is the only way I fully understand what it does without having to learn the joystick layout. So I don't like using other peoples j/s files (Foxy) or key files (BMS). ........ "

It provides the pain, but give you the gain.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I might add and IMHO the follow quote from the BMS4 forum post yesterday says it all:

" ........ The other thing I prefer is to setup the stick myself, because that it is the only way I fully understand what it does without having to learn the joystick layout. So I don't like using other peoples j/s files (Foxy) or key files (BMS). ........ "

It provides the pain, but give you the gain.

Except for two important things:

  1. Modifying the key file is buggy and a pain in the A$. It's better to map your controllers in DX mode to BMS.key.
  2. The BMS.key is designed with the cougar in mind, and maps to buttons at a one-to-one ratio. Just using that keyfile gives you full F-16 HOTAS functionality. This models the real deal.

Normally, I would agree with that assessment about doing your own profile. However, in this case given the realism aspect, you're really stunting your learning curve with bad habits by creating a "custom" profile that doesn't utilize the full-featured HOTAS.

I can understand baby steps, but only from a point of testing. You got arrow keys working in a separate file; now it's time to move to the next step before you develop bad habits. Now if you like, you can create a cougar profile that only maps the F-keys to the microstick as a digital axis. Let the other DX buttons take care of themselves.

Don't beat yourself up too hard. I spent the better part of three evenings tweaking my profile (and it still primarily uses the DX keys), and I still did some more to it last night to fix some things I was unhappy about. It takes time, but the payoff is with some serious interest!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

STOP LOOKING!!! Its fixed. It fixed itself. But how? Only thing I did was pickle with my S2 button on the Cougar (which is programmed to <SPACEBAR>) and the weapon came off the rail. Then I pressed the <SPACEBAR> on the keyboard and it fired another A-A weapon. :icon_bow: But why now and not before?

Well its back to square one. <SPACEBAR> will again not release an ARAAM120B off the rail with BMS4. :angry: Nor will the designated Cougar button. It will in AF but not in BMS4. I didn't fix it last time, it fixed itself. But I'm not going to wait for it to fix itself again, I've got better things to do. :icon_salute3:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well its back to square one. <SPACEBAR> will again not release an ARAAM120B off the rail with BMS4. :angry: Nor will the designated Cougar button. It will in AF but not in BMS4. I didn't fix it last time, it fixed itself. But I'm not going to wait for it to fix itself again, I've got better things to do. :icon_salute3:

Wombat,

BMS4 has different keymappings from AF, which is why you should get away from thinking about the keyboard and instead start thinking about HOTAS use. Think of pickle as the red button on your cougar, not the spacebar.

Also, because your functionality and mapping are different between AF and BMS4, your Cougar profile you use for AF will not work with BMS4.

This is why I said that if you're going to train in AF, to use Jagstang's Cougar profile for AF so you can manage the transition to the HOTAS in BMS4. Think of the controller as part of the sim in both cases, and that might help with the integration process.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Never thought I'd say this: Its only a matter of time before I move to a Cougar DX profile. I'm sick of this keyboard ...... What did I buy the trackball and MFDs's for? But gees ..... I've got some learning to do.......

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Again, Wombat, don't think of it in terms of keyboard or DX. That's only the programming side of it, and it's the guts that you don't see when you're flying. Think about it in terms of the buttons and switches on the HOTAS; with only a few exceptions, that will be consistent across both AF and BMS. There's a reason I don't know the keyboard keystrokes for most of the commands: I don't need to. I programmed them once (or just used the DX button) and now I just think of it as TMS up, CMS left, uncage button, pickle, etc.

Thinking about it in terms of keyboard commands only holds you back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Again, Wombat, don't think of it in terms of keyboard or DX. That's only the programming side of it, and it's the guts that you don't see when you're flying. Think about it in terms of the buttons and switches on the HOTAS; with only a few exceptions, that will be consistent across both AF and BMS. There's a reason I don't know the keyboard keystrokes for most of the commands: I don't need to. I programmed them once (or just used the DX button) and now I just think of it as TMS up, CMS left, uncage button, pickle, etc.

Thinking about it in terms of keyboard commands only holds you back.

:thumbsup:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well its back to square one. <SPACEBAR> will again not release an ARAAM120B off the rail with BMS4. :angry: Nor will the designated Cougar button. It will in AF but not in BMS4. I didn't fix it last time, it fixed itself. But I'm not going to wait for it to fix itself again, I've got better things to do. :icon_salute3:

Well it wasn't me after all :rolleyes:

http://www.72ndvfw.org/frphpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=299&start=10#p1697

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...