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Two F-15E crews pick on Eurofighter


Donster
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I seem to remember that They reckon that an F22 would take down about 5 Eurofighters before it died; survivability about on a par with the latest Flanker variant. On the other hand, the RAF could field a squadron for the cost of one Raptor.

Or some silly numbers like that.

If the battle is decided BVR, The F16 or F18 would probably find those kill ratios reversed; The Typhoon is to be equipped with Meteor; It has an extra 20-mile range on AMRAAM.

BTW; I wonder if you can really call the Eurofighter "New", considering the amount of time they've messed about with development...

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hhmm but correct me if im wrong isnt the F15-E variant the mudhen? and its a little shy on the dogfight side compared to its siblings the F15-C? Ive heard that F15-Es had a tougher time at REDFLAG against the F-16s than their C variant brethren...

btw putting aside AMERICA's love for all things big and strong ;) i think its time someone did spank the Air Force at thier own game .. theyve been needing alittle more competition in the air lately the rocket jocks heads have been getting inflated since the Soviet Union dissolved and no real competition exists :P hahaha sorry Specs but you know the truth search your feelings :) HAHAHA

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The conditions were admittedly a bit artificial according to the story. In the real world the battle would probably have started at over 100 miles away with respective AWACS trying to get their fighters into a good position to start shooting. At 40-50 miles the Meteors are launched, and this is where, if you examine the claims about the F15's record, things will get kicked out of the window. While F15s have never been taken out in dogfights, I believe a couple have actually been lost to missiles; SAMS, since most of the opponents so far met have not exactly been first-raye AAM platforms. If we're talking about an engagement between two flights, say four aircraft each, I think the battle ends here, F15C,E, or Z; each Tiffie can carry up to 6 Meteors to the 4 AMRAAMs on the admittedly older designs.

But even that is an artificial situation; a lot would have happened before that showdown.

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it was an interesting read!! im very much amazed!! but lets not forget tht this not the first time tht it has happened to the USAF pilots in some training thing.....it has happened before as well in india.....when the indian Flankers out smarted USAF f-16z and gave them a real hard time!! so wht do u think?? have the US pilots always been Over-estimated! coz in the recent war theatres the USAF has no resistance in the air !!

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As far as I can recall, in kinda a rush here just home to eat lunch, the F-15 has never been shot down in air-to-air combat like it's been said, and has racked up the highest kill to loss ratio of any fighter ever. The only ones lost were 1 or 2 Mudhens and they were lost to ground fire (not sure if it was SAMs or AAA) over Iraq in the first Gulf War.

There's something about the kill ratio though that you have to remember too, most of those air to air kills weren't done by the USAF they were done by the Israeli Air Force. Which proves it's a good plane but American pilots didn't get the bulk of the kills in it, actually the two times we fought the Iraqi Air Force mostly they wanted to runaway or they got bombed on the ground so even though we wiped out the Iraqi Air Force (twice!) most of it didn't have much to do with air combat anyhow.

The Indians did win against F-16s, although I don't know what the circumstances of the engagement were with that. And even though I don't like betting against the US I'd have to put my money on Israeli pilots if there was an excercixe with F-15s on F-15s. Just the way it is, they're better trained even though they're using the same planes. Which isn't a slam on the USAF, but the IAF simply is better trained, they have to be since they're flying 24 hours a day on combat footing, in rotation every day of the year and have places like Damascus less than 15 minutes away on burner.

As for the EuroFighter thing, they actually got that thing flying now? Wow, the last time I heard "new" used in conjunction with EuroFighter was when I was like 12 or something like that... ;)

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Oh, they've had it flying all the time Schatt; it's just that every time a new piece of avionics/weapon system comes along, somebody says "Ooooo, shiney! Can we bung that on the new fighter before it's deployed?" rather than getting it fielded and upgrading during its service life. <_<

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You have no idea...

Bloke at the factory: Right Mate, here you go; the Eurofighter Typhoon, Ready for service at last! Care to check 'er over, to see everything's how you want it... again...

Man from the Ministry: All seems tickety-boo.... Just a second, what's that?

Bloke at the factory: Ashtray. You know, the ashtray you "suggested" 15 years ago? The one we had to redesign the whole cockpit around? The ultimate in ergonomic design? the BLOODY ashtray?

Man from the Ministry: Well, get it out! Nobody smokes now! Putting that thing in the cockpit is like an invitation to our chaps to indulge in self-destructive habits-

Bloke at the factory: You mean like climbing into a complex, unfeasably high-performance machine and inviting the minions of World-League Sociopaths to fire advanced weaponry at you?

Man from the Ministry: None of that! It goes! Get it out!

Bloke at the factory: Okaaaaay...

Man from the Ministry: Hmm, I wonder what we can put in it's place...

Bloke at the factory: Oh, FFS, Not again!

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LMAO Staggers! Maybe they can replace the ashtray with a spitcup for their chew!  :lol:

I hear the new French Rafale's have a computer controlled, auto-deploying slowdown drogue chute.

Why you may ask? Well see it's big, and white, and kinda sheetlike and they figure that could be very useful in the unlikely event that French planes are ever sent into combat...

...what?

:ph43r:

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I’d have to admit to a bit of a giggle on reading this article. Despite being a great fan of my trans Atlantic friends, it has to be said that for a Brit there is something rather satisfying about good old Biggles trouncing Maverick and Goose as they buzz about in a frantic attempt to “give him the bird.” (I appreciate that I’m probably missing the point somewhere along the line.. but just let me have the moment ok?)

I realise that it’s probably some kind of sacrilege to admit this on a “Combatsim” thread, but your Badger actually knows very little about planes in general and even less about the Typhoon.

But I did see part of a really interesting program about it last year, where Jeremy Clarkson explained to us, amidst plenty of screaming jet engines and sizzling flyby footage, that the Typhoon is deliberately an inherently unstable design which it would be impossible to fly without the big spiffy onboard computers making a zillion control surface adjustments every nanosecond! (Or some such high tech malarkey.) Without this it would apparently be impossible to keep the thing in the air! ( I expect Clint Eastwood could still steal it though if he wanted to. Especially since he wouldn’t have to “think” in Russian.)

I’m sure that the boffins have this all covered of course, but your average uneducated forest dweller can’t help but wonder about these EMP thingies? Don’t they have weapons these days for the express purpose of disrupting communications and computers?

Out of interest by the way, (what do you mean.. “who’s interested!”) We actually live only about ten miles away from the Airforce base where the “Red Arrows” live, and regularly see them taking off and landing on our way into Lincoln. (Actually, not recently though… praps their on their hols.)

Also on the way to my Sisters we pass a “Harrier Jump Jet” which sits outside another Airforce Base. Oh and last month we were parked right next to a “Spitfire!”

None of which has much to do with the thread subject of course.. so I’ll, erm… be going now.

Badger

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The Indians did win against F-16s, although I don't know what the circumstances of the engagement were with that. And even though I don't like betting against the US I'd have to put my money on Israeli pilots if there was an excercixe with F-15s on F-15s. Just the way it is, they're better trained even though they're using the same planes. Which isn't a slam on the USAF, but the IAF simply is better trained, they have to be since they're flying 24 hours a day on combat footing, in rotation every day of the year and have places like Damascus less than 15 minutes away on burner.

Don't sweat it, a lot of the 'ohh, look at how the Indians creamed the yanks' talk came from propagandists who were leaving out an awful lot of facts, like the yanks were pretty much overwhelmed by weight of numbers and of course some of the training ROEs imposed by the Indians left the F16s slightly out of their element.

Same happened when RAF Tornados went to Red Flag and had a 20,000ft hard deck imposed on them because the USAF (allegedgedly) worked out years ago that the fat old Tornado F3 with its puny engines was actually quite deadly below 20,000ft. No I don't know how true it really is either, or how true it is that two RAF Jaguars beat up a pair of F15s at a Red Flag back in 1981 but they are fun stories depending on your perspective. :D

I've got high hopes for the Typhoon but anybody who is expecting an F22 for half the price is kidding thenselves but as for the story that the Typhoon can easily handle the F15? Well yes you are right the F15 is a much older jet but its still on the short list for the Singapore Air Force and the Typhoon isn't so it can't be that obsolete.

Hello you old rides how the devil art thouest? :P

Phil :)

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There was a theory that the US Air Forces let the other nations A/C 'beat them up' so the high command or the Gov. or whomever would speed things up for the next plane project or for more funding or something.

But that was more of a theory/rumour...

Wish I had the full details on that RAAF Pig 'shooting down' an F-16 though :D

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