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IL2 4.01m


neddie seagoon
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Is it just me or this thing a LOT harder to fly?

I been trying to shoot some carrier landings and I manage about 1 in 3 attempts.

I qualified no problem with the old flight model.

I'm not an aerospace engineer, but I am an engineer, and something's just not right. If I was the controls guy from Vought and built an airplane that flew like this, I'd shoot myself in the head.

OK that wasn't exactly constructive criticism. Lets try this. Inertia is not properly modeled. I've never seen an airplane bounce the way this Corsair does in response to control inputs. When a pitch command is input, the aircraft starts to move about the pitch axis, when the input is removed, the airplane is supposed to stop rotating. Perhaps it will continue to rotate some, but the motion should smoothly come to a stop. A 9000 pound airplane will NOT hunt for attitude like this one does.

This is just frustrating as the math is not at all complicated. Hmm, that last sentance has got me thinking. I'll bet it's not an inertia problem. That would suggest a problem in the data and that doesn't seem likely. Especially since it's not just the Corsair that bounces, it's all the airplanes. I'm thinking it's the numerical method he's using to solve the governing equations. Something as simple as using too big a time step could cause this "hunting" effect. Classic underdamped differential equation. Sure would like to have a look at what's going on. Bet I could fix it. :P

Right. That feels better. I'll stop whining now and learn to deal with it, but geez, it just doesn't have to be this way.

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The Corsair was notorious for poor low speed handling and stalls with little or no warning did happen, thus it was often called "the ensign eliminator". Before the 4.01 patch torque and inertia were not well modeled in IL2. The 4.01 patch introduces us to an early version of the upcoming Battle of Britain flight model engine. This version does make a good effort at modeling torque and inertia.

To fly in IL2 with the 4.01 patch you will need to use your trim tabs. For the Corsair, 6 degrees right wing down, 6 degrees right rudder, and 3 degrees nose up are required for take off. I usually leave these settings dialed in for most of the flight (I forget to mess with them is the real reason). When ready for takeoff be sure to lock your tail wheel and control your directional stability with a little right rudder.

When you attempt to trap aboard a carrier you must follow the real flight manual. Full flaps, gear and hook down, approach speed 90 to 95 KIAS. I shoot for 90 KIAS and no more, but if you drop below 85 KIAS you will quickly find yourself in trouble.

With full flaps and gear down the Corsair stalls at 75 KIAS. This stall is vicous and at low altitude is not recoverable. The only warning you will get will be the port wing dropping. If you do find yourself getting too slow on approach or too low, do not add power rapidly, this will torque roll the Corsair and end in an unrecoverable stall. Add power gently and control the torque roll with right rudder.

As for the bounce, Oleg's Corsair model only models the early versions of the F4U-1. The early versions did bounce terribly. Looking through my Corsair books I do see F4U-1's of VF-17 qualifying aboard the carrier and some of those landings show the Corsair bouncing up a good 20 feet or so before slamming down on the deck again. This problem was worked out during the F4U-1A production, but Oleg did not add the fix to the Corsair model.

The Corsair is one of the harder aircraft to fly in IL2, but the real Corsairs were also difficult to handle.

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Try quals in an SBD first. Stans is right about the flight model. It is actually pretty realistic now as far as the historical specs are concerned, but it is harder for us sim pilots than it probably was in reality with no LSO, no sense of G, and poor peripheral vision.

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Although there is little you can do about peripheral vision, I have found that using the Track IR system has greatly improved my sim flight abilities. The ability to look around smoothly and not having to manipulate a hat switch or keyboard keys is just incredible. I know Track IR can be expensive, but it is well worth the money.

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Yeah I use it and it is as big an improvement as using a joystick when all you had was a keyboard, but I still wish I had peripheral vision, it is a lot faster and requires less effort. Right now Track Ir works off your head movement...I want one that works off eye movement, that would be bada$$.

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Yeah I use it and it is as big an improvement as using a joystick when all you had was a keyboard, but I still wish I had peripheral vision, it is a lot faster and requires less effort. Right now Track Ir works off your head movement...I want one that works off eye movement, that would be bada$$.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah it would be

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Yeah, I know the Corsair is tough to handle at slow speeds. I'll just have to practice more. That was mostly a rant out of frustration. Thanks for the replies.

As for "bounce," wheel bounce on landing is not what I'm talking about. What I have a problem with is the sim's response to a step input from the controls. Try this, pull back smoothly on the stick and then quickly let it go back to center. The aircraft will follow the control inputs to a point. Once the controls get back to center, the aircraft continues on into an overshoot. Fine, that's expected, what I think is not correct is that instead of then smoothly coming back from the overshoot to neutral, the aircraft responds by undershooting, then back to overshoot and so on for several cycles. That's what I meant by bounce. It's a classic control response to a step input, but I don't think it's correct in this case. I think the motion should be damped out after the first overshoot but it's not. I think it's an artifact of the code and not a real life thingmy.

Anyway, there's nowt we can do about it except complain, so that's what I did.

I'm done ranting now.

Thanks for the tips.

I got to figure a way to get a Track IR past the CFO! :lol:

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Well, good luck complaining. Oleg simply ignores the Pacific crowd and revels in the accolades heaped upon him by the eastern front crowd. <_<

And in real aircraft there tends to be a little oscillation when you release pressure on the controls. In my very limited hands on flying in a Piper Super Cub I had to overcome my instinct to react to the aircraft oscillating after I finished a turn or climb. You have to be gentle with airplanes and it is real easy to get heavy handed with the controls. Remember, you are not actually flying the plane, the plane flys itself, your job is to tell it where to go.

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(Remember, you are not actually flying the plane, the plane flys itself, your job is to tell it where to go. )

Stans,I just want to congratulate you on THE most succint explanation of piloting an aircraft I have ever heard. It's a masterpiece of brevity yet fully explaining the art of flying. I just hope it's not a crib,but an original thought! It's put in my "Brilliant thoughts from Brilliant minds" file!

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"Brilliant thoughts from Brilliant minds" file!

Oh man now you've done it. Stans' head is not going to fit in the cockpit now. :ph43r:

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Ronin is wise a guy pilot of combatsim a piece wisdom for you exists in post form:

You going a try try try to landing Corsair for weeks. Maybe try A6-M series Zero Sen? You become a very pleased the pilot experience! So delight as landing commences. Joy in a fight also, for best survive effect Ronin uses IJN fighter!

look for label "Ronin Approve!" :thumbsup:

Corsair not has any such a labels in it!

Maybe this Samurai get an humility brilliant mind award?

Also if you not any good a landing you plane, you maybe enlist Kamikaze? This a very good job!

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Yea, that's just what I need, where's the application for a Kamikazi job? :o:o

You know, Ronin, you're right, that bloody little zero is very easy to land. I was very delight as landing commenced. :D

But good heavens it seems like a toy compared to the Corsair. Ah, Corsair, now there's an airplane. Right, off for more practice, if it's going to take weeks, then I better get started. :P

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(Remember, you are not actually flying the plane, the plane flys itself, your job is to tell it where to go. )

Stans,I just want to congratulate you on THE most succint explanation of piloting an aircraft I have ever heard. It's a masterpiece of brevity yet fully explaining the art of flying. I just hope it's not a crib,but an original thought! It's put in my "Brilliant thoughts from Brilliant minds" file!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, I cannont take credit for being my own thoughts, it was told to me in the cockpit of that Super Cub by the instructor pilot sitting behind me as I was slinging the aircraft all over the sky. His advise helped, I eased up on the controls and started directing the plane instead of flying it and the ride got a lot smoother. By then end of the day I was maintaining straight and level flight and able to make coordinated turns. The instructor actually let me fly the pattern around the airport and line us up on the final. He took the controls as we approached the runway. It was quite an experience and had not been for 9-1-2001 I may well have persued a pilot's license.

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Yea, that's just what I need, where's the application for a Kamikazi job?  :o  :o

Well, the situation, must go in Japan, have a form. Physical examinations. Intelligence tests. Advice: do not do good job this tests or they going to make you landings on carrier! :o

But good heavens it seems like a toy compared to the Corsair.

Yes oh you so right boss! I have retention the plastic package of Ronin A6M3 "Hamp". On back of this box is write:

HAZARD: POTENTIAL FOR INGESTION AND CHOKING INJURIES!

HAZARD: POTENTIAL FOR IMPACT INJURIES!

HAZARD: POTENTIAL FOR EYE OR OTHER SEVERE INJURIES!

HAZARD: POTENTIAL FOR SEVERE BODILY INJURIES OR DEATH!

HAZARD: REALISTIC TOY WEAPONRY!

Very dangerous this toy! Of course this warning applies to Allies pilot! Except first one. Do not eat Zero Sen. Believe Ronin on this. :ph43r:

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