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I smell a banning in the air.


Stans
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This one just might get me banned from the pit.

The long and short of it is, as I see it, that Pacific Fighters was born out of contractual obligation, it was released before being finished, maybe there was a screw up in obtaining the permission to use the name "Grumman" or "Vought", but it was not Oleg's dream or desire to make a Pacific sim.  The Pacific is not his area of interest and it shows in some inaccurate aircraft models, lack of ships, and poor carrier trap simulation.  So this is what we have, partially finished, and it will be nothing more, and any excuse to get out of finishing it will have to work.  A harsh criticism?  Yes, it is, but that is just the way it is.

The thread:

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee/forums?a=tpc...0653#8781070653

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Doubt it will lead to a banning, but the Zealots will be out in force.

It amazes me that Oleg would hold his reputation in such low regard, but I guess if you are the one-eyed man in the kingdom of the blind, you've got a serious surplus of credit.

I really hope BoB2 manages to reach its full potential; 1c do need a serious kick in their complacency.

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I don't understand this...for years, Harpoon has used Grumman products in the database, and I don't know of any threats from them concerning copyright. Personally, I'd be prepared to tell the SOBs to see me in court, and be prepared to be slaughtered in the court of public opinion. When threatened with lawsuit by Tom Clancy not to base any scenarios on Clancy's work, I sent him an email, cc'd in as many places as I could think, to go right ahead, you'll look real stupid in court suing a broke-d!ck old shipfitter :thumbsup:

Boats

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Hearts of Iron II, made by a comparatively small Swedish company, uses Grumman as one of their research teams I'm pretty sure. And they use a plethora of company names and even logos with the research teams. They have Wildcats, Avengers, Corsairs, etc. and as far as I know no one has even asked them to remove the references, let alone threatened legal action for them.

Yes they use company logos. No, no threats.

In other words, Oleg is full of crap and is using that as an excuse to not have to do any more work on something he really didn't want to do in the first place.

Oleg'd really hate HOI II too, the Russian tech is historically accurate...which means it truly sucks for everything except tanks up until '45 or so. ;)

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You mean it didn't suck after that?

He didn't want to do it, so we get this garbage. But the zealots all scream that it's the best thing since buttered bread and "could we please have another shovel full of sh!t cramed down our throats oh pretty please Oleg?"

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I'm sick of tired of Fanboi Gulag Guards saying "just be thankful that you've got something."

IT'S HARD TO BE THANKFUL FOR A FLAMING PILE OF SH*T!

But I guess since it's Oleg's Holy Sh*t, it must be good.

This rant is re: the Pacific, where it's obvious they had no interest.

Their other works have actually been good, despite the many German and Russian rants (mainly about trivial things. However, things as big as ships and basics aren't so trivial)

so this sim they've put out really has let them down more than anything as their quality is slipping and getting a tad..full of themselves. :ph43r:

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Could it simply be that they don't know crap about WW2 Pacific platforms or operations?

Boats

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's a big part of the problem. The other part is that they did not listen to those who did know how the Pacific war was fought and where it was fought. So we have a handful of maps of mostly water with a few islands, a few aircraft, missing some aircraft that were key to the war, bad physics modeling in respect to carrier traps, and bad flight models above 10,000 feet which is where most Pacific flight ops occured. What they do listen to are the ones who bow and scrape at Oleg's feet and praise him for the Me-109Z and just about anything that has to do with Europe and especially the Eastern Front.

I really don't care if the Eastern Front is all Oleg knows. That being the case, I think he should have either not attempted a Pacific sim or outsourced to people who did know how the Pacific war was fought. But no, he tried to fudge it himself and what we have is a 2/3's (at best) completed pile of poo.

By the way, complex engine management in IL2? HA!!!! The mixture, at least in the Corsair, has two settings: 100% and the useless fuel waster 120%. That's it for mixture. No way to lean it out for maximum cruise, but then again, on the Eastern Front the flights were fairly short ranged and duration was not as big of an issue. CFS2 with the 1% flight model did allow for complex engine management and if you weren't careful you'd melt the engine.

I guess the whining from the Pacific guys really boils down to the earlier IL2 series being darned good for its time, but then instead of giving us a Pacific sim of equal quality, we got the dregs out of the pot. I will say that online flying is fun and is easy to connect with IL2 and the playing field is level with no one able to use their own modified flight model. I just wish the time and attention to history had gone into Pacific Fighters.

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OK, in "The God of All that is Flight Sims" defense, Illya, AKA Luthier, is the one that started the Pac project. He couldn't deliver the goods when it came down to nut cutting time. Oleg had to step in and finish it. Now, having said that, when it was clear that he was going to have to finish what was started, what he should have done was thrown himself into it, even though he didn't want to do it, and treat it like it was HIS project. Because ultimately, HIS name is attached to it.

I know this going to sound like the ole Gunny being paranoid but, Oleg and most of his crew grew up like we did during the Cold War, in a country that pretty much started said war. It is my opinion that Oleg does not believe that the US and the Commonwealth were anything more than a side-show to the "Great Patriotic War" and that it really was the Soviet Union that won WWII all by its lonesome. Any statement to the fact that the F4U-4 "Could not have been that good" and that the performance data on said aircraft was nothing more than "developer and Allied propaganda" pretty much proves that.

His "fan-boy" base IS the only thing that gets anything that they want. And they are willing to kiss his ass to get the table scraps that he flicks off his table. That "you should be happy with what you got" argument don't was either. I, as did everyone else, PAID MONEY FOR A PACIFIC SIMULATION. What we got was not even 2/3. It's more to me like an 1/8.

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Well, that thread over in the pit was fun while it lasted, now we must sit down and shut up! Thread closed.

Tully__

The Joystick Man

Posted Mon September 12 2005 09:15

Guys 'n' gals, this is a closed topic. There are legal issues is all anyone needs to know.

While I'm as keen to see it sorted for future additions as anyone, we've been asked to keep speculation out of these forums.

At least a few posters over in the pit joined in and voiced real opinion.

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