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No Longer Made in America


mane_raptor
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The Gun that Won the West will be discontinued in March

NEW HAVEN, — The traditional Winchester rifles carried by pioneers, movie stars and Wild West lawmen will be discontinued in March, a Belgian manufacturer said Wednesday, confirming the end of an American icon that became known as “The Gun that Won the West.”

Once the U.S. Repeating Arms plant closes March 31, the only new rifles carrying the famous Winchester name will be the modern, high-end models produced in Belgium, Japan and Portugal. The older models, including the famous Winchester Model 94, will be scrapped.

“The name will continue, but not with those traditional products,” said Robert Sauvage, a spokesman for the Herstal Group, the Belgian company that owns U.S. Repeating Arms and the right to the Winchester name.

Herstal announced Tuesday that the U.S. Repeating Arms factory in New Haven would soon close, capping 140 years of Winchester manufacturing in the city.

Yet another American Icon bites the dust. :angry::angry:

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Outsourced again. :(  Eventually we will outsource all of our wealth :angry:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We already have! Guess who holds more Treasury Bills than we do? R-i-g-h-t! C-H-I-N-A-!

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Outsourced again. :(  Eventually we will outsource all of our wealth :angry:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Eventually?????????????

We are doing it RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!

America no longer leads in IT development. More is going on overseas than here. We currently make less than 10% of the world's computer chips. And thanks to H1-B visas, IT firms can hire foreign workers to do the programming, systems development, etc. at reduced wages and never have to leave the States.

I was told, as a young man, that a career in computers would mean that I would never be out of work.................Yea, RIGHT!!!!!!!!! :angry::angry::angry:

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Winchester, Browning, and FN are owned by a state owned French company. I would not be surprised if they have other reasons for closing the US plant. Brownings have been made in Belgium and Japan for a while. I guess Winchester will be too now.

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Two issues with the closing of the U.S. Repeating Arms factory. First, Connecticut is not exactly a gun friendly state, nor is most of the Northeast. Eliminating firearms is part of the social(ist) program for many (most) of the politicians in this area. I heard that the mayor of New Haven is putting in his bid to be the next governor of CT and is using the closing of the USRA plant as an example of how he cares about his constituents' safety.

The second issue is money, specifically the union wages being paid to employees who churn out crap work for maximum dollars. GM and Ford are suffering from this and may ultimately end up in bankruptcy. Colt has suffered with this problem as have S&W and just about any manufacturer who is unionized. With our new global economy, companies have come to realize that they don't have to pay fat, lazy American union members excessive wages and benefits. They can now go to China or India, get the same or better quality labor and pay out a fraction of the wages.

I know I'm getting political here and likely on the edge of breaking forum rules, so I'll shut up now. :rolleyes:

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Industry is moving from NA to the third world NOT because our workers are fat and lazy, but because big corporattions can rake in a lot more profit by paying some poor bugger in Indonesia $2.00 a week for 10hr days in a sweat shop.

A lot of "japanese" cars are now made in Ohio because the US workers make them BETTER and CHEAPER than in Japan. I have a cousin in Urbana OHio who works at the Honda plant. They ship cars TO Japan. He is well paid with good benefits.

Everytime we go to Wal-mart instead of the local store because Wal-mart are 5cents cheaper we force another local store to close, another NA worker out of a job, open another sweat shop in China, and line the pockets of the Wal-mart executives.

Why do you think all our farmers went out of business......not because they were lazy or got paid too much.......WE put them out of business by buying stuff that came imported from Chile or Portugal because it was TINY bit cheaper than stuff grown in the US or Canada. We saved $1, put a family farm out of business, and the board of directors at Kroeger got another $100,000 bonus this year.

Sorry but this stuff just really ticks me off

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Its not all the outside lads................look inside...............I imagine that Unions and other factors play a big part.

Am I going to pay big $$ so some union wanker can sit back laugh and expect job security...............SCREW THAT!!

**CANUCKS ANTI UNION RANT**

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American and probably Canadian, we'll just say North American workers are among the most productive in the world. The work a lot more hours and take a lot less vacation time than Europeans. I don't think it is a productivity issue.

Unions really do kill the goose that lays the golden egg. The problem starts when they want more money but without increasing productivity. Many of the union goons realise the only way they can make more is by using their collective power to screw the company that pays them. Many are out for blood and don't know when to quit either, putting the host out of buisness. Unions served a purpose at one time when the company was screwing the workers but these days the tables have turned.

Having said all that, I'm not thinking it was a union issue here. I really suspect it is the parent company deciding to reduce civilian sales through Winchester with a possible increased focus on military sales with FN. Similar to what Colt did. I gotta wonder considering who owns them. I just can't see them not turning a profit. They are fairly inexpensive and well made guns.

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Guys,

One simple fact here. GM announced the closing of several factories here in the US. The jobs will not be going to South America or Asia, they will be going to CANADA!.

Why, simple really. Health Care Costs.

Here in America the workers and the company pay the costs of health care. In Canada, the state, through taxes, picks up the costs. The wages in Canada will not be less, it is the cost of health care that will enable GM to make more profit on each car.

Until America joins the rest of the industrial world and offers universial health care, more and more companies will opt out of our economy and move overseas, even if that sea is the Detriot River.

Oh and I just heard this morning on the radio, Fresbies will no longer be made in America, the Whamo Corporation has been sold to a company from Hong Kong.

Yet another American Icon bites the dust. :angry:

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Mane, I live in a country with universal healthcare. People who can afford it go private and pay for it twice. I had to get some teeth pulled a few months ago, I was in agony. If I went the state funded route it was going to take 11 months to have it done. I paid out of pocket despite paying taxes.

My wife's father died of skin cancer here, it would have been potentially easy to treat but with all the ques and delays it became untreatable. He died in a hospital room with jackhammers and other construction noise going on next to it.

Don't give up your second opinions and private competition. The real problem we have in the USA is rampant lawsuits and insurance fraud driving up healthcare.

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Mane, I live in a country with universal healthcare. People who can afford it go private and pay for it twice. I had to get some teeth pulled a few months ago, I was in agony. If I went the state funded route it was going to take 11 months to have it done. I paid out of pocket despite paying taxes.

My wife's father died of skin cancer here, it would have been potentially easy to treat but with all the ques and delays it became untreatable. He died in a hospital room with jackhammers and other construction noise going on next to it.

Don't give up your second opinions and private competition. The real problem we have in the USA is rampant lawsuits and insurance fraud driving up healthcare.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Let me give you an example of the costs here:

A few months back, I thought I was having a heart attack (turned out to be a stomach problem common with diabetics). At the emergency room I was given 4 baby asprin, two to chew and two to swallow. When the bill arrived a few days later there was this notation: "Patient administered drugs.....$104"

That's right $104 USD for 4 baby asprin, a 100 pill bottle of which I could have bought over the counter for less than $2.

The problem is with the administrative costs, not lawsuits. When you have 20-30 adinistrators to a hosptial, each earning in the $75,000 range, that cost has to be paid for somehow.

BTW, My insurance company did not even blink at this cost, even when I reported it to them. One would think that they would be just as concerned about this rip-off, but nope, they'll just keep rasing the cost of coverage rather than attack this type of gouging.

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Yep that is gouging for sure and hospitals employ people to "creatively" bill for maximum effect. :angry: Fight it Mane, they depend on you not disputing it. If you argue it with them, it starts costing them money.

But you want more competition to fix that, not less. You think administration is expensive now? Try putting the government in charge. :D

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Well Skipper something has to be done.

Insurance companies are willing to let this kind of crap go on as long as you keep paying them.

They will shell out huge sums of money for a lung transplant, but not a dime for you to go to Stop Smoking programs or and Quitter's aids (gum, patches, etc).

Somewhere along the road here, we (America) have got to get these costs under control, otherwise.............. :(

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Yep that is gouging for sure and hospitals employ people to "creatively" bill for maximum effect.  :angry: Fight it Mane, they depend on you not disputing it. If you argue it with them, it starts costing them money.

But you want more competition to fix that, not less. You think administration is expensive now? Try putting the government in charge.  :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I did argue with them Baltar, but it did no good.

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Similiar situation Mane, when my knee swelled up to the size of a softball a couple years back I had to go to the ER. It was Easter day so nothing else was open, so I get some doctor that can barely speak English telling me they can give me pills or do surgery to drain it out. Well call me crazy I'll take the pills. They were good ones too and worked well so I was happy, they cost about $100 bucks but that was for 2 weeks worth of good pain meds so I wasn't to cheesed off about that.

What I was cheesed off is they wouldn't let me leave without a full leg immobilzer and crutches. I knew the crutches would cost me (something like $40) and was expecting that. But the thing was the nurse put the immobilzer on my leg...and that in the bill was $230. Yeah over 200 bucks to take 2 minutes to strap on some velcro strips. The cost of the doctor himself was only like $20.

Now that is crazy. I fought it, they said oh well. I said fine and paid the entire bill...minus the $230. I don't have any insurance so all of that money came out of my pocket, but I didn't begrudge them it. Except for that, they even had the balls to write it up as "rehab procedure". Two minutes. My ass.

So I don't like hospital bills, I don't like the BS they think they can charge you with, but I also don't like the idea of socialized medicine either. If they'll charge me $230 for fastening 4 strips of velcro what do you think they'll charge the government for it? Anyone who has an "in" for charging the government will always overcharge, anyone remember the $700 hammers? So in the end I may be paying more right now (no insurance) and I don't like it, but everyone isn't paying way more in taxes to pick that universal medicine would cost.

It's kinda a lose-lose situation.

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We as the insured also have to watch the medicos. When I had my back surgery some years ago, I was released on a Friday morning. Lottie, being in the insurance business, asked for an itemized copy of the bill, which we received the following week. They had on the bill that I had been released on Sunday. Charged the Insurance company for two extra days. They also charged for medication that they said they gave me, which I know they didn't because we looked up the meds and it was for treating a heart condition, which I didn't have. I talked to a Doc friend of mine to verify what it was used for, and he said there was no way it would be given to a patient after back surgery for any reason, unless I had a heart condition. The med was a couple of hundred dollars a day charge. The insurance company would have just paid it without question. Lottie informed the hospital and the insurance company. If I remember the about of overcharges was over $2000. ALWAYS ask questions and get an itemized bill and question everything. We all pay for it in the end if we don't police these medicos.

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Donnie,

I hear ya. But MY experience was that my insurance company didn't want to hear about the overcharge, they just paid the bill anyways!!!!!!!!!!!

And there is a reason, from the insurance companies point of view for doing that

Because they do this, they can then go before the Insurance Commission and say" See medical care costs are up this year. We need a rate increase." The commission looks at the numbers and say "OK".

The hospitals charge these rates, because they know the insurance companies will pay them without question in most cases and because they know they can make a bigger profit that way. So next year those asprin will be $110. And then the insurance companies will go back to the commission, and......well you get the idea.

It's a vicious cycle that ends up costing the comsumer far more than what medical care and insurance for it is actually worth.

Schatt,

You fall into this also. The charge for each of those items and services you, as an un-insured person, paid for is determined by what the insurance companies will pay, not by the actual cost of the service.

And because of the cycle, businesses also have to pay higher and higher coverage payments for their employees. Which cost they must then pass on to the customer.

Two Points:

1) $1500 of the cost of each car GM sells is due to Employee Heath costs.

2) A majority of personel bankrupcies in America today are due to the cost of health care because of some medical emergency.

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Per capita the US Government spends more on health care than the Canadian Gov't , yet US citizens still fork out huge sums to insurance companies and a large number of US citizens have no health insurance at all.

The cousins I have in Ohio were a classic example about 20 years back. Tony worked for International Harverster at the time and had a pretty good health plan. Their daughter ( a little kid back then ) got complications from asthma and ,even with their insuranace, they ended up with a second mortgage on their house because the insurance company wouldn't pay for all the treatment and they didn't want her to die.

Here , that would not have been an issue.

I can't speak for anywhere else in Canada, but nobody worries about health bills here. If you want to get a boob job or a nose job, you pay for it yourself, but if you get cancer , or have a heart attack you are cared for without cost. Nobody is gouging anybody and nobody is getting rich off healthcare.

Administration is a tiny part of the system because there are no bills to collect and no insurance companies or lawyers to fight with. And nobody has to mortgage their house becasue they have a sick kid.

And unlike the example given from the UK, the system works pretty well.

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