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Post for this year's Daytona 500


Stans
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Well, I must say that this year's opening show is better than last year's. Bon Jovi is not a bad pick as those of us who were in our late teens through twenties are probably the core of Bon Jovi's fans and we are now the ones with the better paying jobs and are most likely to watch or go to NASCAR events. Last year we were treated to a real has-been, Brian Wilson. Listening to him butcher the songs that made him a fortune 40 years ago was disappointing and a travesty. Bon Jovi still sounds great!

Alright, let the race begin!!!!

Oh, and the FedEx caveman commercial...... :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Hey, a pair F-22A Raptors for the fly-by!

And here they go.... boogity, boogity, boogity!!!!!

Uh...... Jeff Green loses the tread off the rear left tire on the first lap. Tire issues already. And I mean the whole tread simply left the tire and rolled off the track in one piece. :blink:

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Interesting race, wild finish, as usual. Notable drivers from Virginia: Elliot Sadler finished 4th and the rookie from Chesterfield County, Denny Hamlin, was in 30th when the caution came out on the final lap. He was running in 10th when the last big wreck caught him. :(

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Great race :)

I bought the Race Day Scanner thingmie for my wife (big Nascar fan) and we listened to the in-car comms for Junior, Jimmie Johnson, Martin, Gordon, Waltrip, Jarrett, and others. Was great as we could keep up with the action during the innumerable commercial breaks. Junior is a riot to listen to during the caution flags :D

Tony Stewart is still a psycho, but he also still has the best car control of any psycho driver I've ever seen. He rescued his car from a couple of sideways maneuvers that would've put most guys into the wall.

Gordon and Stewart tangled early in the race, and it looked like both were at fault. Gordon pushed into the wall and cut-off Stewart, but Stewart could've cut the guy some slack and backed off a tick. But Smoke wouldn't be smoke if he were the kind of guy that cut other drivers slack.

Later in the race, Stewart looked like he was trying to kill Kenseth by savagely forcing him into the infield of the front stretch while doing 190mph. In the interview after the race, Stewart first denied he did anything wrong, then said he was just "finishing" what Kenseth started after what Kenseth did to get him loose a few laps prior. Yeah, whatever, Tony. Have a juice and a little time out as you go back to the end of the longest line for trying to kill a guy. I don't like Kenseth all that much either, but there is no excuse for the move Stewart pulled. The irony of all this is that it was Stewart who was whining about agressive driving during testing week.

All in all, it was a relatively incident free race. No "big one".

Jimmie Johnson ran a smart race by not trying to lead every lap. He just bided his time and went for the gold during theh final ten laps. Congrats to him for driving such a strategic race. Too bad for Jimmie's crew chief Chad Knauss, though. He had to sit out the race for an illegal car modification (re: cheating). I'm sure his not being in the crew chief chair for Jimmie's first Daytona 500 race is going to haunt him to his grave.

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Doug do you mean that you think that Chad the Cheater did not call and tell them what to do over the past week? Come on man, you know he was still in the middle of the stuff.

Yeah JJ won and to be honest I hate it. Anyone but him was all I could say. He is a cheater, his CC is a cheater and his car owner is a cheater.

Yes, they all cheat but none have been busted 5 times in 2.5 years.

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Shep,

I feel your pain, bro. There are certain drivers who I don't care if they win, just so long as one of the drivers I really hate doesn't win. I guess that's what makes Nascar such a fun sport. Rivalry!

As for Chad, I think Nascar needs to grow some balls and suspend him for half-a-dozen more races. Then, they need to tell the rest of the teams that "creative engineering" is no longer acceptable. You and I both know that Nascar started as a good ol' boy sport and the prevailing wink-wink-nudge-nudge attitude was that "if they don't catch you, it ain't cheating." Well, to me, them days is over.

Nascar needs to get with the times. Virtually every modern day sport now punishes cheating with instant disqualification from an event, if not the sport. Slapping a fine, point deduction, and suspending Knaus on the Lowes team for that rear-end setup fiddle was sending the wrong message. They should've started with giving Johnson a DNF for that race, then they should've heaped on the fine, the points deduction and the suspension.

Problem is, Nascar knows that they have implicitly condoned cheating over the years so they are slow to get tough. Well, they need to wake up and smell the coffee and give any team that cheats instant DNFs. That's about the only thing that will make these bozos think twice about getting "creative" or playing within the so-called "grey" areas.

Well. I'm getting a bit dizzy up here on my soapbox, so I'm going to step down now. :)

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I think the 48 team as a whole needs to sit out for about 6 races, that will get the sports attnetion. I understand that traction control is a huge no no (life time ban) and what he did was leaning toward that.

Cheating yeap in some ways, but not that open and not that often busted. I prayed all night his car would be illegal, now that would be some egg on their face would it not.

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Shep,

The beautiful thing about having an opinion, is that I don't necessarily have to have all the facts straight.

I, for some inexplicable reason (:)), had not understood that the 48's illegal setup was during one of the Daytona Speed Week races that leads up to, and is part of qualifying for, the actual Daytona 500. With this new information in hand, I think that the 48 team should've been disqualified from the Daytona 500; in other words, they shouldn't have been allowed to even start.

Now that would've sent a message to the sport.

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Yes, it would send a message, but I think big money talks in NASCAR. Lowe's spends tons of money in and on NASCAR events, lots of promotions, so do you really think NASCAR is going to disqualify the car of such a huge money sponsor? Now if it had been some guy with no sponsor, he might well have been shown the exit gate.

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NASCAR is all about balance. If you took all the danger away, then the fans would lose half of what they came to see. So, there's always an element of danger. That's why Nascar doesn't totally ban bump drafting, nor make the nose panels real flimsy. You take bump drafting away at Daytona and Talladega, there wouldn't be much in the way of passing.

Sponsors: sponsors pay large, really large, amounts of money to see a car and a driver out on the track every week talking the name, and flashing the name. Rules infractions relating to "illegal modifications", i.e., cheating, have been going on since the first Daytona 500, and are punished with fines and something every driver has come to fear, losing points. Remember, the difference between first and second last year was 35 points. The 48 didn't have a crew chief yesterday, and tomorrow, I expect Nascar to slap the 48 with a bunch of points, probably as much as 50. Those hurt...really hurt. The reason why Knaus wasn't penalized officially before the race, was because under the rules, he could file an objection, which wouldn't have been ruled on till this week, and Nascar wanted to rub it in Knaus' nose. Now that Johnson has won, expect him to lose 50 points. Take away 50 points, and Johnson will finish with less points than the guy that came in 14th (http://www.nascar.com/2002/kyn/nascar_101/02/02/Points/)

So at the end of this season, with Jimmy Johnson in the hunt for the Championship, just how badly do you think those points are going to hurt him?

Boats, who LOVES NASCAR!

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Stans,

You've pretty much underscored why I'm not as enthusiastic about Nascar as I was as a kid. Because big money can dictate and influence the rules, then Nascar really isn't a sport but an entertainment product. Just like CART and IRL, the inmates are running the asylum. Nascar and open wheel racing need to have a third-party governing body that inforces the rules. And that governing body needs to have carte blanche to enforce those rules regardless of who the driver's sponsor is.

I mean Tony Stewart should have been told to park his car immediately after he tried to kill Kenseth. The guy cannot control his anger and no amount of fines and "going to the back of the longest line" is going to change him. They need a strong, independent governing body to enforce rules on the spot. I know that approach would make the drivers happier because they would have the confidence that the rules would be enforced equally across the board. The way it is now, guys are retaliating themselves because they know that Nascar plays favourites and the guy who just about killed him, or smashed into him for no reason, might not get any penalty at all.

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Now in defense of NASCAR, sometimes it's hard to tell if an on-track action was by intention or by accident. Did somebody run out of room, bump into someone else and trigger another car to depart control or did somebody simply get mad and slam into someone? Now in Tony's case, it seemed pretty obvious, even more obvious when Kenseth and Tony left pit road, Kenseth caught up to and then clipped Tony as he passed him while getting back on the track under caution. Regulating on track behavior can be a gray area, at least at times. As for intentionally setting up a car with illegal parts or dimensions, well, there's no denying that it was intentional and should be treated as such. I guess if you want really fair racing, watch IROC, all cars identical except for color. Can be boring as hell to watch.

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I have said it before here, NASCAR is all about the big money sponsers now. As a mechanic myself, I loved NASCAR back in the days of Petty, the Alison Brothers, Foyt, Yarbourgh, Parsons, etc. You had great competition because the big three...GM, Ford & Chrysler, and even AMC pumped tons of money into the sport, using it as testing for engines etc. Not because Lowe's had their logo on a car. Now all the cars are all basically the same. All limited. No advantages. Boring. Sometimes parity isn't always a good thing. Hell even Toyota is gonna get into Nascar. Barf! <_<

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Yeah, I really think this is my last year of following NASCAR. Between the big money, drivers that don't know jack about turning a wrench, races moving to the West coast and now foreign manufacturers entering what was traditionally a Southern sport, I've pretty much had my fill. Money? Oh, yeah, I think that's a big reason Mark Martin is in for at least one more year, maybe more.

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Yeah, but IROC has the same rules enforcing problem as does Nascar. Either they or IRL just fired their chief rules guy because he was making calls unpopular with the car owners.

But you are right about the dangers and boredom factor that homogenization brings. That's why I enjoy watching new, up-and-coming road sports like that off-road truck racing series and the import car drag racing series. Because these sports are still evolving, there's a real excitement factor that the more mature, overly-refined sports like Formula 1, IROC and Nascar have lost. Like how exciting was Forumla 1 back in the 1960s? It was amzing because it was still evolving and dangerous as hell. Jackie Stewart, to his credit, improved safety for the drivers, but that was the beginning of the end of excitement for that sport.

If history is any guide, Nascar will someday get its lunch eaten by some form of racing we can't even imagine yet. Just as IBM got dethroned by Macintosh and PC computers, just as Bill Gates got blindsided by the Internet and open source applications, something is going to come along and make Nascar seem staid, ho-hum, and out of step with the times.

What that form of racing that is going to be, I can't say, but I can't wait for it to arrive! :D

[EDIT: I have the flu, so I my brain is totally not working...IROC? I was thinking CART. Yeah, IROC is totally homogenized...but if they had different paint schemes on those cars, you'd never know they were exactly the same. No, I know it's just wrong to even THINK of a Nascar "formula" but hey, that seems to be the direction it is going.]

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I mean Tony Stewart should have been told to park his car immediately after he tried to kill Kenseth. The guy cannot control his anger and no amount of fines and "going to the back of the longest line" is going to change him.

First I will admit to being a Stewart fan....

But....

If you go back and look at the greats in NASCAR the Dale SR, Petty, Allison those guys fought ,sometimes down to blows in the infield, for every inch and didnt give anyone else a break. Hell Dale Sr is known as the Intimidator. Why? Because he would spin your ass in a heart beat if you got in his way. This sport isnt about being a nice guy or letting someone else past you because it might be dangerous. It is about competion and big money prizes. Stewart claims that Kenseth got him sideways earlier in the race so he got him back. How many of us can honestly say that we wouldnt have done the same. We may not have been as obvious about it but....... If you take all aggressive driving out of the race you might as well have 90 year old ladies driving their Lincolns around the track. It is RACING they are there to win not to make friends. I fail to see the problem.. Now I will admit to the stupidity of complaining about agressive driving then going out and bumping and rubbing like that but again thats racing.

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Mako, I agree 100%. Racing involves risk. NASCAR has done an excellent job reducing the chance of losing a driver, or even getting one hurt. Race teams really don't like it when their drivers race other types of cars, because they know that Cup cars are so well built.

Yes, it's about money. What, you thought maybe NASCAR was a non-profit? If you're in business, then it's an axiom that the only safety is in growth. Well, NASCAR is growing. It's reaching out to different audiences (NASCAR isn't being good hearted about reaching out to minority owners and drivers, it's the audiences they want), to broaden it's appeal to more markets. Is it entertainment? Hell yes it is! You want sport? Go watch Pop Warner football. ALL sports today, especially the ones that end up on TV or pay for view aren't really sports, they're really entertainment. Would you watch a sport that was boring? Nah, don't think so. Would you watch a sport that was exciting? Hell, yes! Is NASCAR exciting? Hell yes! It's got danger, tension(you gotta have tension to have drama, peoples), uncertainty as to who will win (If the Lions play Pittsburg, would you watch that, if there was a better, more closer game on?), fascinating personalities (Tony Stewart vs Dale Jr.), all the things that people look for in good entertainment. And there is a TON of competition in this sport. There's 43 cars out there every week, and while I'll grant you theres 15 that don't have much hope, the other 28 are racing their asses off for a checked flag.

Is Nascar the same as it was back in the 70s? Nope, sure aint. But is Nascar the same as it was back in the 50's? Don't think so. Nascar is growing. More and more people enjoy it. It ain't a bubba sport anymore.

Get over it, and....

GIT 'ER DONE!

Boats

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I've never been a Stewart fan because he allows his idiotic temper ruin what would otherwise be a stellar career. His antics aren't entertainment. He has, as I have said, got the best car control of any driver in Nascar (maybe ever in Nascar) but he is dangerous, not intimidating, dangerous when he thinks someone has done him wrong.

Kenseth was nowhere near Tony when Tony got loose and went sideways. So, had Kenseth hit that corner wall head-on and been killed after Tony ran him into the infield at top speed, I'm sure people would've been thinking of pressing criminal charges against him. I grew up watching NHL hockey and fighting and "enforcers" were always tolerated, that is, until Todd Bertuzzi sucker-punched Steve Moore and ended his career by breaking his neck. Yeah, fights in hockey are a hoot, but then there's guys who just don't get it and take it too far. Stewart is one of those guys who doesn't get it and goes too far.

It's a shame really, because Stewart could be one of the giants of not just Nascar, but of all motor racing. The fact that he drives and wins in so many competitive racing series, like Mario Andretti used to do, is one reason why he has such great car control. But the crap he pulls on the track is inexcusable, and I don't need to watch a driver blinded by rage to be entertained. I'm not the only one who thinks this, either. Greg Zipadelli, his own crew chief, has publicly admitted that he felt Stewart's antics were hurting the team to the point where he questioned his desire to continue racing with the "bad boy" of Nascar.

I'm entertained by driving skill and team tactics, not by a guy who destroys the opportunities his team gives him by acting like an immature child.

So there :P:)

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